• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Alcadizzar19

Lt. General
32 Badges
Jan 26, 2014
1.277
676
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • War of the Roses
So my proposed idea is that one of the things Imperial Administration should bring is the addition of a College of Cardinals-esque function of an Imperial Senate, not just to the ERE though, but to all states which adopt Imperial Administration.

While the Senate of Rome was increasingly less powerful as the dominate progressed, it still retained an important symbolic, as well as constitutional, role within the Empire until 1204 when the 4th Crusade happened. It was not revived afterwards, however this is, understandably, due to how the whole imperial remnant was a shambles after that debacle. The Senate was involved in the election of the emperors Leo I and Heraclius, among others, as well as financing the Nika riots and other revolts plus it researched, drafted and suggested legislation. So what would this entail?

The framework of the College of Cardinals would be the guide. Obviously since there can't be hundreds, or even thousands as it was at the greatest extent, of senators in the game there would have to be an electoral system like the republican succession and the CoC succession for about a dozen or so positions to be held by viceroys of both ducal rank and kingly rank. The Senate would have a top tier position, elected among the elected senators, which while historically was called Prefect of the City, makes more sense as just titled Consul or Prefect in gameplay terms. This top tier position would have with it a powerful tax framework whereby the monies generated by the Senators would go to him rather than the Emperor if the Consul disliked the Emperor. Much like how now a vassal Pope or anti-Pope will pay gathered taxes to his Imperial liege unless he dislikes him.

Furthermore you could be hailed by the Senate of your Empire as either a hero or a tyrant to effect their symbolic role and this would give an opinion malus or bonus. Some people would say "symbolic" power is no such thing, however even if they have little capability to raise troops themselves, if your Senate calls you a horrendous tyrant, that could easily sway other vassals to dislike you too. Or the opposite as well.

Now, does this serve some game function that is currently lacking? Not really, no. But it would easily flesh out Imperial Administration more (rather than just being a flat increase to the number of vassals you can have) and much of the framework does exist and the Roman Senate still existed for much of the game's timeline.
 
Upvote 0

Castorem

Just Some Prole
25 Badges
Mar 6, 2014
781
1.295
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sengoku
This. It would be really cool to have the senate in the game, but I have serious doubts that any major overhaul for the Byzantines will come around any time soon. If they didn't add it in the Legacy of Rome, they probably won't now.
 

Federalist girl

Field Marshal
87 Badges
Aug 15, 2010
2.520
1.158
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Victoria 2
The Byzantine Senate was so immaterial though, especially in this time period. They existed, but nobody cared. Moreover, the Senate tended to be stuffed with former court bureaucrats: the Senate was like the ultimate sinecure, really. The last consuls were appointed (by the Emperor, I might add) well before the timespan of the game.

I'm always in favor of an accurate ERE, but the Senate is so unimportant that it's not worth implementing. If anything, the guy who mentioned peerages is right: a late game mechanic relating to the formation of parliaments in the 12th and 13th centuries would be far more helpful (and could hopefully accompany a general late-game feature expansion).
 

Alcadizzar19

Lt. General
32 Badges
Jan 26, 2014
1.277
676
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • War of the Roses
The Byzantine Senate was so immaterial though, especially in this time period. They existed, but nobody cared. Moreover, the Senate tended to be stuffed with former court bureaucrats: the Senate was like the ultimate sinecure, really. The last consuls were appointed (by the Emperor, I might add) well before the timespan of the game.

I'm always in favor of an accurate ERE, but the Senate is so unimportant that it's not worth implementing. If anything, the guy who mentioned peerages is right: a late game mechanic relating to the formation of parliaments in the 12th and 13th centuries would be far more helpful (and could hopefully accompany a general late-game feature expansion).

It was progressively immaterial as a result of how things happened to progress, not immaterial as a design feature. It's immateriality would be, especially in a 769 start, as secure as anything else. Which is to say, none at all. It did elect more than a few emperors, and could be a right nuisance if it liked to be. And my proposal is not simply for the ERE, but for all realms that adopt an Imperial Administration.

Furthermore, it could simply be the Imperial variant of the parliamentary mechanic that you suggest. It's not like legislatures were products of the 18th and 19th centuries.
 

Gnostiko

βασιλεύς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ
72 Badges
Sep 17, 2009
702
119
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
It was progressively immaterial as a result of how things happened to progress, not immaterial as a design feature. It's immateriality would be, especially in a 769 start, as secure as anything else. Which is to say, none at all. It did elect more than a few emperors, and could be a right nuisance if it liked to be. And my proposal is not simply for the ERE, but for all realms that adopt an Imperial Administration.

Not really; Federalist Girl pretty much said all that needs to be said about the Byzantine senate. Even by CM start, the senate's last noteworthy act was agitating for the deposition of Heraklonas - an event that happened over a hundred years earlier. Next, they simply acted as a mouthpiece for the mob that elected Nicholas Kanabos to succeed the Angeloi.
 

Alcadizzar19

Lt. General
32 Badges
Jan 26, 2014
1.277
676
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • War of the Roses
Not really; Federalist Girl pretty much said all that needs to be said about the Byzantine senate. Even by CM start, the senate's last noteworthy act was agitating for the deposition of Heraklonas - an event that happened over a hundred years earlier. Next, they simply acted as a mouthpiece for the mob that elected Nicholas Kanabos to succeed the Angeloi.
The last major harrumph of the Eastern Senate was in 1197 with the Alamanikon tax where they forced the emperor to not levy the tax against them, nearly 400 years after the CM start date. Well before that time it was still a venerable institution of dignitaries of the empire that were, at most times, valued. The truly vast spans of time involved here are just preposterous to think that anything was an absolute given. The timespan between the CM start of 769 and the year the Senate was well and truly disestablished but for a bare title, 1204, is almost two hundred years long than America has existed as a country. It certainly was not a given that it would continue to rust.
 

Mikalos

General
26 Badges
Dec 22, 2012
2.043
539
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
The last major harrumph of the Eastern Senate was in 1197 with the Alamanikon tax where they forced the emperor to not levy the tax against them, nearly 400 years after the CM start date. Well before that time it was still a venerable institution of dignitaries of the empire that were, at most times, valued. The truly vast spans of time involved here are just preposterous to think that anything was an absolute given. The timespan between the CM start of 769 and the year the Senate was well and truly disestablished but for a bare title, 1204, is almost two hundred years long than America has existed as a country. It certainly was not a given that it would continue to rust.

ohh man, a tax act? whatever will we do, better put a ahistorical system in place!
 

Alcadizzar19

Lt. General
32 Badges
Jan 26, 2014
1.277
676
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • War of the Roses
ahistorical

This word, you bandy it about and I don't think you truly appreciate it. The Imperial Senate was a thing until 1204, which was the point where the entire ERE was functionally disestablished for a time. Whether its powers were temporal or symbolic, and the difference is marginal, is entirely a point of how things *happened* to proceed, not how they *must* have proceeded.

And I do just gotta say:

ohh man, a tax act? whatever will we do, better rebel against our motherland and set up a new government!

Sound familiar?
 

Mikalos

General
26 Badges
Dec 22, 2012
2.043
539
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
TWhether its powers were temporal or symbolic, and the difference is marginal,

I forgot when symbolic and temporal were "only marginally different".

if we have elections in a country for 200 years, but for the last 100 they were sham elections, do we still need to model these elections in a simulation game of said country?
 

Gnostiko

βασιλεύς καὶ αὐτοκράτωρ
72 Badges
Sep 17, 2009
702
119
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
The last major harrumph of the Eastern Senate was in 1197 with the Alamanikon tax where they forced the emperor to not levy the tax against them, nearly 400 years after the CM start date. Well before that time it was still a venerable institution of dignitaries of the empire that were, at most times, valued.

Mikalos' sarcasm aside, he has a point; you're reading a wee bit too much into that. Being a 'venerable institution' functionally means squat - certainly from TOG start date, and quite likely from CM, the senate had devolved into little more than a glorified old boys club, just as many of the once utilitarian, yet respected, court titles similarly devolved in the 11th-13th centuries.

The truly vast spans of time involved here are just preposterous to think that anything was an absolute given. The timespan between the CM start of 769 and the year the Senate was well and truly disestablished but for a bare title, 1204, is almost two hundred years long than America has existed as a country. It certainly was not a given that it would continue to rust.

By that same token of logic, why not reinstate the office of Consul/Hypatos? The last time it had any real significance was during the reign of Constantine I and it was not officially abolished until the reign of Leo VI, a time span longer than CM to 1204. Sure, Consuls didn't actually have any real power, and there was still prestige attached to being named Consul, but dammit, man, they still meant something! Seriously though, if you're going with "anything can happen in x amount of time" you're kinda going into alt-history.

Skaven fan, by any chance?
 

Federalist girl

Field Marshal
87 Badges
Aug 15, 2010
2.520
1.158
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Victoria 2
In a perfect world with development time for everything, or in a Byzantine-centric game, I'd agree that it would be negligent not to include the Eastern Senate. But given that there are other priorities, I don't know that the simulation of the Senate is essential to gameplay.

For example: the complaints about the feudal ERE that led to the viceroy system were important and legitimate, because a feudal ERE is modeled so incorrectly that its behavior impacts the overall historical simulation. But even though this goal was accomplished, the devs went out of their way to point out that this isn't a Byzantine feature: they just get early access to it.

And honestly I'd see further improvement of the Byzantine bureaucracy as more essential to modeling the ERE than modeling the Senate.

But as far as Parliaments go -- they're a different thing altogether from the Senate. While the old Roman Senate -- up until its demise -- was largely consisting of the Roman landowning aristocracy, the Eastern Senate was essentially a court party. A very hierarchical court party, but a court party nonetheless. Parliaments, on the other hand, were formed up of feudal landowners who decided they wanted an increasing say in things and guarentees on their privileges. It's rather different.

Now, you could theoretically have both: court parties and parliaments and the rivalries between them (although this has a risk of sounding excessively 17th century) -- but a rise of parliaments thing is different from an existing- mostly but not always symbolic -- entity. The real thing was between monarchical centralization and parliamentary privileges. Given how widespread that sort of thing was, I feel like it's more gameplay essential than an ancient anachronism.

It's a really cool ancient anachronism, don't get me wrong. I agree that it's fascinating -- I just don't see it having a place in CK2, at least not until other stuff is done first. And this is coming from someone with a huge, giant ERE icon. :)
 

Alcadizzar19

Lt. General
32 Badges
Jan 26, 2014
1.277
676
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • The Kings Crusade
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • War of the Roses
I forgot when symbolic and temporal were "only marginally different".

if we have elections in a country for 200 years, but for the last 100 they were sham elections, do we still need to model these elections in a simulation game of said country?
Here is where I would say that all of our elections are shams, but that would be marginally unkind of me. And symbolic power is extremely powerful when those symbols are given credence. Excommunication doesn't actually do a whole lot to a person's soul, but that doesn't make the gesture less powerful in our symbolically driven societies.

Skaven fan, by any chance?
Nahh, entirely Druchii myself.
 

RexVetus

Sergeant
37 Badges
Jul 9, 2013
59
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Hey I'm trying to get into Byz and Roman history what are some good books to read to get a general grasp of things. Personally I'm a huge fan of empires so later Roman books after the senate became "Symbolic" :).
 

Mikalos

General
26 Badges
Dec 22, 2012
2.043
539
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
Hey I'm trying to get into Byz and Roman history what are some good books to read to get a general grasp of things. Personally I'm a huge fan of empires so later Roman books after the senate became "Symbolic" :).

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire is always a fun read if you can deal with the fact it's ancient
 

Ancient Warrior

Sergeant
65 Badges
Jun 2, 2003
95
50
Visit site
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
Hey I'm trying to get into Byz and Roman history what are some good books to read to get a general grasp of things. Personally I'm a huge fan of empires so later Roman books after the senate became "Symbolic" :).

A Short History of Byzantium is a good read by John Julius Norwich. Also, Venice: A New History by Thomas F. Madden is excellent. Don't worry about it not being Byz history. The ERE will be there, they had plenty of dealings with them. Can't go wrong with either of these. :)