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pdubz

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I don't know if anyone else has done an accurate flag for Scotland, but the one which comes with vanilla and remained after I installed AGCEEP is just wrong. Enjoy!

9828-flag-SCO.bmp
 

Khephren

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pdubz said:
I don't know if anyone else has done an accurate flag for Scotland, but the one which comes with vanilla and remained after I installed AGCEEP is just wrong. Enjoy!

9828-flag-SCO.bmp

This flag is post 1512. The one that comes with AGCEEP is accurate for 1419.
 

Semi-Lobster

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According to Wikipedia

Wikipedia said:
The Scottish flag is one of the oldest flags in the world, traditionally dating back to the 9th century, and is the oldest national flag still in modern use (the oldest state flag is Denmark's Dannebrog). According to legend, King Óengus (II) (or King Angus) led the Picts and Scots in battle against the Angles under King Aethelstan of East Anglia near modern-day Athelstaneford in East Lothian. King Angus and his men were surrounded and he prayed for deliverance. During the night Saint Andrew, who was martyred on a diagonal cross, appeared to Angus and assured him of victory. On the morrow a white saltire against the background of a blue sky appeared to both sides. The Picts and Scots were heartened by this, but the Angles lost confidence and were defeated. The Saltire has been the Scottish flag ever since.

Worldstatesmen.org put the date of the use as the Saltire as a flag of Scotland as 1512 which coincides with this information from Flags of the World:

Flags of the World said:
1180: The oldest extant record of the St. Andrews cross flag is on a seal in St. Andrews, where it is used as a religious, not a national, emblem
1286: the St. Andrews cross was first known to be a national emblem of Scotland (the seal of the guardians of Scotland).
1385: every Scots soldier used a saltire on his uniform (often used on black, not blue - the background colour seems to have been of less importance)
1388: the Standard of the Earl of Douglas used a St. Andrews cross and a lion
1503: the first certain use of a plain St. Andrew's Cross flag - but the field was red, not blue (the Vienna Book of Hours).
1512: the Lord High Treasurer's accounts mention the use of blue bunting.
1542: the first certain illustration of the St. Andrew's Cross on a blue field as we have it today (armorial of Sir David Lindsay).
Reign of James IV: flagship Great Michael flew a flag with the St. Andrews cross and on the fly a red lion on yellow
1588: Scottish ship illustrated flying three saltires
1606: James VI (Scotland)/James I (England) combined the Scottish and English flags into the union flag of Great Britain
1707: Queen Anne continued using James VI/I's design. A Scottish version is also known, with the saltire over the St. George's cross
1801: the modern union flag introduced.
1970's: the Scottish saltire became much more prominently used in Scotland
1 July 1999: the union flag and the saltire were both used at the opening of the Scottish Parliament. Normally, though, only the Scottish saltire is flown.
1385: The ordinances for its use on soldier's uniforms read: 'Item every man French and Scots shall have a sign before and behind, namely a white St Andrew's Cross, and if his jack is white or his coat white he shall bear the said white cross in a piece of black cloth round or square'.
Two quotes from the Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland:
1512: Payment for a roll of blue say (woollen bunting) for the banner of a ship 'with Sanct Androis cors in the myddis'.
1540: Delivered to be three ensigns for the ships sixteen 'elnis' red and yellow 'taffites'. Delivered to be the crosses thereof, four 'elnes' half 'elne' white 'taffities' of Genoa.
 
Last edited:

Mad King James

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Semi-Lobster said:
Yes, making the entire topic, somewhat moot :D The Royal coat of arms of Scotland is probably the best flag for Scotland.

The king is the only man in Scotland who is technically allowed to fly the royal arms though, just like the flag of the United Kingdom is legally only allowed to be flown over the Queen's residence today.
 

Semi-Lobster

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Mad King James said:
The king is the only man in Scotland who is technically allowed to fly the royal arms though, just like the flag of the United Kingdom is legally only allowed to be flown over the Queen's residence today.

Well then what flag should we use then? We can't use the Blue Saltire (too late) and we can't use the Royal Standard (only the king can use that). There is historical evidence that prove the use of the Cross of Saint Andrew though, the oldest signifcant and widespread use is from 1385 which desribes a White Slatire on a Black field.
 

Bordic

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Mad King James said:
We have a flag change event command, why not use it?
If anyone is interested and/or has the feel to write some text about the use of the new flag, here is what I did with the French flag:

Code:
# Bourbon White Flag
# By Bordic, based on Fodoron's SPA Modern Flag event
# Many thanks to Jarl Birger for his graphics
event = {
	id = 170038
	random = no
	country = FRA
	name = "EVENTNAME170038" #A new flag for France
	desc = "EVENTHIST170038"
	#-# 

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1638 }
	offset = 90
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1647 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME170038A" #Change the flag of both naval and land units
		command = { type = treasury value = -5 }
		command = { type = flagname which = Bourbon }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME170038B" #Keep the old flag of both naval and land units
		command = { type = vp value = -5 }
	}
}

EVENTNAME170038;A new flag for France;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST170038;Introduced firstly in 1632 as the distinguishing banner of the French Royal Navy's high commander, the new Royal Standard was white with a semy of yellow fleur-de-lys and the shield of France placed in the middle. After 1638 it became the favourite Royal banner and since then it was hoisted on all French warships and fortresses. White was the color of he House of Bourbons, and it was the color of the Virgin Mary, to whom the Kingdom of France was consecrated by Louis XIII. But it was also the color of Joan of Arc, under whose banner the English were finally driven out of the Kingdom. Although King Henri IV was the first to start changing the golden-lilied blue flag for the white flag early in 1598, the blue field finally disappeared from French flags completely with Louis XIV.;;;;;;;;;;

But with the new provided flag one shoud make a copy of the current Scottish shield in gfx/map/shields folder and smallshield as follows:
Code:
shield_scoSaltire.bmp
smallshield_scoSaltire.bmp
then add the new flag in gfx/map/flags folder:
Code:
flag_scoSaltire.bmp
and include the following line to the new event in order to use the new flag:
Code:
command = { type = flagname which = Saltire }

EDIT: that command line changes all three CoA bmps: shields, smallshields and flags. That is why I suggested to rename copies of current shields if the aim is to modify the flag only!
 
Last edited:

Prinz Wilhelm

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The msot proper flag though seems to be the Royal Scottish lion :D
 
Jan 9, 2005
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Prinz Wilhelm said:
The msot proper flag though seems to be the Royal Scottish lion :D

It's not :)