• Pre order now!

    Paradox Development Studio brings you the sequel to one of the most popular strategy games ever made! Crusader Kings III is soon upon us and you can pre order it today!


    Releasing September 1st 2020

GreenMarine

Major
Feb 24, 2004
629
0
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
If you're like me you fired up your first HoI3 GC with the intent of building some IC, researching some foundational tech, and then annexing Austria and Poland at the end of your 3 year establishment period. Thus starts World War 2.

Or not. Doing this rote strategy in HoI3 will surely land you in hot water as every country joins the Allies (even Japan!) and you find yourself facing sure doom by 1946 or earlier. Dog pile on Germany. Or Italy. Or whoever you happen to be. Several forum posts would have you believe the game is broken and a historical outcome (or even a reasonable ahistorical outcome) is not possible. This is simply not true.

Success lies in mastering the espionage game. "Pah," you say. "Pah! Everyone knows espionage in Hearts of Iron 2 was a tacked on pile of useless features that never really worked." Indeed. In HoI3, however, this is not the case. Not only does espionage work, it is an indispensible part of any young tyrant's toolkit.

Let's start by identifying some key concepts:

Threat - The old Paradox "badboy" concept seems to have migrated into threat. Threat is accumulated like badboy, but isn't entirely the same. Or rather: its mechanics are now more visible. Countries accumulate threat by declaring war or through some events (like the Anschluss). When the Threat of a faction's member states is high enough the opposing factions will gear up for war.

Neutrality - Neutrality is like the opposite of threat. It's a barrier to entry. Neutrality is a measure of how uncommitted your country is to war. The higher your neutrality, the less likely you are to declare war. Countries with high neutrality are also harder to recruit into alliances, but note that any country that drifts into perfect alignment with an alliance's founding state can be recruited even if very neutral.

Countries feel threatened by other countries that are aggressive. The effects of threat seem to be muted by distance. Germany engaging an unaligned Poland would build more threat toward France than it does toward the United States.

Each state has a position on the diplomacy grid. Every day states "drift" toward one of the three corners of the grid representing the ideologies of the major factions. There are two major drift components you CANNOT control:

1. A country's geographical position. The closer a country is to a faction member the more it will drift toward that faction.

2. A country's ruling ideology. I have never seen this change, although perhaps it is possible. All country's begin with a predisposition to drift toward the Axis, Allies, or Commintern.

If you had a game where no faction ever declared war or used diplomacy you would see each faction drift to a corner based primarily on these factors. Such drift would probably not give you a perfectly historical outcome, but it might be close as democracies and republics would align with the blue corner, socialist states would move toward the red corner, and the paternalists toward the black corner.

THREAT, however, changes the story. If a state perceives one of the factions as being a threat it will be pulled away from that corner. If a certain faction is really freaking threatening -- like Germany after annexing Poland -- states will be "pushed" away from that corner.

This is why states seem to flock to the Allied banner. A noobish Axis player starts abusing the world early, scaring everyone to flee under the protective folds of Churchill's rain cloak. Ahem.

THUS:

You must learn to manipulate the appearance of your enemies to neutralize the effect threat has on pushing favorable states into the arms of your enemies. You have two goals:

1. Keep potential enemies neutral as long as possible. For Axis players this means keeping the United States out of the war.

2. Keep potential allies moving toward your factional corner so you can more easily recruit them.

A country cannot join a faction unless it is either nearly perfectly aligned with that faction on the graph (full drift to their corner) or they are moderately close and they feel more threatened than they are neutral.

The naive method of controlling an enemy state is to apply direct political pressure to the forehead. The "influence" option enables you to push a target state toward your corner. On the downside this option costs 2 diplomats every day. If you want to influence 4 states that's 8 diplomats. Or 8 research projects that aren't getting done.

Influence is very inefficient and CHANCES ARE it will NOT be successful by itself. A Germany post-Poland is likely somewhere around 40 threat or more and influencing another state at this point MIGHT slow its drift to a crawl, but all those other states are going to be running toward the blue corner right fast.

The key lies in that age old solution to damn well everything: PROPAGANDA. Yes, it's time to make our enemy look like the bad guy.

If you look on the espionage screen you will notice a mission called "INCREASE THREAT." This has the effect of raising another state's badboy rating over time. You can have a total of 10 active spys in another state and with all of them working they can raise the badboy of a target fairly quickly. There are, however, a couple of mitigating factors:

- A country's threat is evaluated on a state-by-state basis. A mission to raise the threat of the UK will raise it at different rates for every state. So the UK may appear more threatening to Denmark than it does the US.

- This effect is based on distance. The US is less threatened by European states than by, say, Mexico. At least this seems to be the case.

- Large countries or perhaps countries with better counter-espionage don't raise threat as quickly. I'm not sure what the actual factor is, but raising the threat of Denmark will be faster than the UK or France even with 10 spies in each.

Now you have two strategies to pick from and both should be used together for maximum impact.

STRATEGY 1: The Grand Propaganda Campaign - Raise the threat in every member state of an enemy faction. As Germany, insert spies into the UK and France and have them raise threat. This will make the Allies look SCARY to other nations and they will begin to slow their move toward the blue corner. If you do this early in 1936 you can greatly slow the rate at which the Allies recruit new members.

Combine this with influencing key countries. For a more historical outcome influence Japan, America, and Switzerland. This will cause Japan to quickly becomes recruitable and will greatly slow the rate America enters the war. Switzerland will remain neutral for quite some time.

When the faction gains a new member, insert spies there as well. This will have the effect of weaking the alliance's ability to recruit even as they get stronger. They get new members, but you make their threat increase more quickly pushing other states away. Neat!

STRATEGY 2: The Shill - Pick any unaligned country (a state that isn't a member of a faction) and raise their threat using your spies. I like to pick on Denmark. Make the Danes the enemies of all the world through your propaganda. Because they are small the threat will build quickly. If you do this in 1936 its possible for Denmark to have 60+ threat by 1939 which is more than if they had declared war multiple times! People will HATE them. Why do this?

Other countries are more easily recruited and diplomatically manipulated if the amount they are threatened is GREATER than their neutrality. By setting up Denmark as the worlds evil empire through your efficient propaganda machine, you make neutral countries more pliable and less neutral. This will let you recruit countries that aren't fully aligned with you on the political graph.

Be aware, though, that pushing a third party's threat up too high could trigger an ahistorical war where some state becomes so threatened they decide to shut down your shill.

Also note that raising the threat of a country that is not in a faction will not change other states drift. States drift in response to faction member threat so unaligned countries won't impact the graph.

So how does all this play out in reality? Try this.

- As Germany influence America, Japan, and Switzerland. This will require a 6 leadership investment in diplomacy.
- Invest about 4 points in espionage. This will generate MAD amounts of spies.
- Change your spy send priorities so they go to the UK, France, and Denmark.
- Set the spy missions in those states to "Raise Threat."
- Work on your normal game: tech & gearing up. Don't reoccupy the rhineland until you're ready for Anchluss since you want the threat you are building in the Allied states to take root. If you annex Austria early you create threat from the Axis that will neutralize your efforts.
- Japan and Italy should become recruitable fairly quickly.
- Check the political graph in 1938. You'll see America fairly far from the Allies and other states in the middle.

You can use this for ahistorical evil as well, like recruiting National China into the Axis instead of Japan.

There may be specific mechanics I have slightly wrong, but this covers the general gist of using espionage to offset your expansionism.

Note that you can also put spies in your own country at work lowering your neutrality. This will let you declare war earlier. If you lower your neutrality while raising the threat of the country you want to attack, democratic states can go on the offensive early in the game.
 
Last edited:

GreenMarine

Major
Feb 24, 2004
629
0
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
To be clear, you raise threat to push countries away from the faction that threatens them. You influence countries to pull them toward you faster. Threat is stronger because it impacts more states at once so you should generally spend your leadership on SPIES for threat not on diplomacy. A mixed approach is highly effective for pulling powerful states into your political corner, but it isn't worth pulling smaller states unless you want to keep them neutral for strategic or historical reasons (like Switzerland).
 
Last edited:

unmerged(149786)

Second Lieutenant
Aug 8, 2009
146
0
  • Hearts of Iron III
There should probably be some component or limiters on threat based on the size of the army...

But then, people are often willing to beleive lies.

JM
 

GreenMarine

Major
Feb 24, 2004
629
0
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
These strategies are mainly useful in the grand campaign because you have time to build threat and influence unaligned states. In 1939 scenarios and beyond war will build up threat faster than spies can counter and most states will have already picked an alliance to join.
 

notenome2

Second Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2007
180
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Surviving Mars
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Victoria 2
Fairly fantastic stuff, to be completely honest its getting anoying how people pile on stuff and dont realize that HOI3 isnt HOI2 (which was HOI + stuff), its a completely new game with vastly new mechanics that you cant game like you did in previous iterations. There is some blame on Paradox for not making some of this stuff clearer but once people calm down and look around they'll notice that fundamentally this is a game you can't min-max (ie neglect everything in favor of research, which was prob what everyone thought they were gonna do).

Now if they could just fix the CG bug....
 

Consumerist

Second Lieutenant
Jul 18, 2008
150
14
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • 500k Club
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Cities: Skylines
This is what I most love about hoi3. You get a far more interesting pre-war period.
 

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
Nov 15, 2004
2.704
411
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Now if only the Axis AI would actually influence countries...

And if the factions would be more varied in which countries they influence. I don't want to see the USSR influencing only Romania and Communist China every game.
 
Aug 8, 2009
12
0
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
Very interesting. Will Japan declare war to U.S. in this strategy? If you already invited Japan into the faction, you delcared war indirectly with US eventually, right?
 

Gixian

First Lieutenant
Aug 17, 2006
261
120
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Nice post, nice reading. Going to try all this "mess making" some time...:D
 

unmerged(112862)

Sergeant
Aug 30, 2008
79
0
Now if only the Axis AI would actually influence countries...

And if the factions would be more varied in which countries they influence. I don't want to see the USSR influencing only Romania and Communist China every game.
For the most part ai seems to just target oone country to influence. axis problem is Italy aligns towards Germany almost day one, even though its almost ideal.
 

JohnMK

Fidei Defensor
Dec 25, 2001
5.012
156
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
Fantastic! I can't wait to try this. :D Thank you for taking the time to post.
 

mesut

First Lieutenant
Mar 24, 2004
250
2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • PDXCon 2019 "Baron"
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
Excellent. I love the way HOI3 handles diplomacy, only the major AIs need to get taught some tricks.
 

egslim

Colonel
Apr 1, 2006
1.122
90
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
Very interesting guide. It's good to know diplomacy and intelligence are now actually important, and that playing as Germany you can use them to obtain historical outcomes.

However, it seems the AI is far less systematic (and effective) than a player using your strategy.

So the first problem with the game is that playing as any another country than Germany, Germany still ends up isolated.

The second problem I expect - haven't tried it myself (I'm waiting for the 1.2 patch or at least a CG hotfix) - is that if the UK player adopts your techniqes AI Germany becomes even more isolated.

And in multiplayer, if all players use your techniques, will Germany still be able to to maintain a somewhat historical outcome?

What I'm saying is this, if Germany is so diplomatically disadvantaged that you need to use far better diplomatic techniques than your opponents to merely maintain the historical status quo, then as soon as your opponents adopt the same techniques you're in trouble again.
 

onkeljonas

First Lieutenant
Nov 10, 2003
262
5
kpnet.dk
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
they'll notice that fundamentally this is a game you can't min-max (ie neglect everything in favor of research, which was prob what everyone thought they were gonna do).

Now if they could just fix the CG bug....
Oh my god! How did you discover my supahsekrit supahstrategy? :D

Very nice guide... I haven't had the patience to dig into anything but a bit of research and some war yet. This will help immensely.

I do think at least Switzerland should be more or less hardcoded neutral, maybe some others too (not Sweden though). Although amittedly I base this on a very limited knowledge of Swiss inter-war politics, and in reality they could have dropped their neutrality.

OT, but regarding the CG bug - there will be a hotfix monday afternoon according to Johan.
 

Neofusion

Private
Aug 3, 2009
14
0
I find this to be an interesting new mechanic, rather then historical, for the most part. It's quite gamey and can easily result in absurd gamesessions since the AI doesn't appear to deal with it very well in the current version of the game (your Denmark example is excellent proof). Hopefully balancing have a mediating effect.
 

GreenMarine

Major
Feb 24, 2004
629
0
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
Yeah the AI isn't so good at using this kind of strategy. Players using Italy can pull this off as can Japan, but they are essentially doing Germany's work for them. Germany is the best Axis country to do it with as they have the most leadership to burn. Smaller countries will have more trouble since you really need your leadership for research.

The burden is on the attacker to use propaganda to balance their offensive threat, so Allied countries don't have to employ this kind of strategy. Once Germany starts the war other states will come running to you.

I think this stuff will be particularly cool in multiplayer where people tend to take on the major powers. Then both factions can threat-war each other using espionage to try and recruit more minor allies than the other.

BTW another thing you can try if you are Axis and have high threat due to war is to push states toward the Commintern by only raising threat with the Allies. This can be useful since Russia and her allies enter the war late.