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zijistark

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I am somewhat bothered by the Holy War Cooldown counting from the war start and not the end.

Especially because this sticks you with the modifier even if the war ends inconclusively. Hm.

Frustratingly for many possible applications, Paradox has forgotten consistently to add any way for modders to execute any effects upon war invalidation. Thus, we can never cover the event "war ended" conclusively.

However, what you're passively requesting is possible. You do realize that'd mean the cooldown would effectively last much longer (unless the war invalidated), right? I'm not sure whether that'd be a popular change.
 

AnaxXiphos

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I am somewhat bothered by the Holy War Cooldown counting from the war start and not the end.

Especially because this sticks you with the modifier even if the war ends inconclusively. Hm.

This is actually an issue I raised personally some time ago, but there isn't a good fix. Waiting until the end of the war to apply the cooldown would allow you to engage in multiple multiple holy wars at the same time, which isn't desired behavior. And right now there's no on_invalidation we can use in CBs to remove the cooldown.
 

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Waiting until the end of the war to apply the cooldown would allow you to engage in multiple multiple holy wars at the same time, which isn't desired behavior.
That at least is easily avoidable; it'd be simple to require that the ruler not already be engaged in an offensive holy war when starting one.
 

Raineh Daze

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Frustratingly for many possible applications, Paradox has forgotten consistently to add any way for modders to execute any effects upon war invalidation. Thus, we can never cover the event "war ended" conclusively.

However, what you're passively requesting is possible. You do realize that'd mean the cooldown would effectively last much longer (unless the war invalidated), right? I'm not sure whether that'd be a popular change.

In this case, isn't it possible to cover 'war has ended inconclusively' by just applying the modifier in either the successful or unsuccessful case?

I don't think it would last that much longer; wars generally don't drag on for years at a time. Though if it is that much of a difference, couldn't the cooldown just be cut down to four years from five?
 

zijistark

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In this case, isn't it possible to cover 'war has ended inconclusively' by just applying the modifier in either the successful or unsuccessful case?

I don't think it would last that much longer; wars generally don't drag on for years at a time. Though if it is that much of a difference, couldn't the cooldown just be cut down to four years from five?

Yeah, that's what I meant by this case actually being possible to fulfill (since we wouldn't be applying the modifier upon invalidation). It requires several CBs' modification and duplication of the cooldown code twice by moving it to the cases of CB fail (white peace), reverse_demand (surrender), and success (three end condition points vs. one point at war start).

Honestly, I favor this approach despite the redundancy in our CB code. It's not really on the top of my TODO list, but if I happened to be going over all the CB code anyway (which I will need to do soon), I'd take care of it while doing so.

I think the cooldown would just be left as it is even in the face of such a change: 5 years is nice and simple.
 

Raineh Daze

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Yeah, that's what I meant by this case actually being possible to fulfill (since we wouldn't be applying the modifier upon invalidation). It requires several CBs' modification and duplication of the cooldown code twice by moving it to the cases of CB fail (white peace), reverse_demand (surrender), and success (three end condition points vs. one point at war start).

Honestly, I favor this approach despite the redundancy in our CB code. It's not really on the top of my TODO list, but if I happened to be going over all the CB code anyway (which I will need to do soon), I'd take care of it while doing so.

I think the cooldown would just be left as it is even in the face of such a change: 5 years is nice and simple.

Eh, as I said, I don't think wars drag on enough for it to matter anyway.

And the current situation is a bit... odd.

"My lord, five years ago we declare war upon the Caliphate for their refusal to acknowledge the truth faith."
"Yes, and? We still war against them."
"Well, it has been decided that it's been long enough since we last justified a way this way that we may do so again."
"But the current war still goes o--"
"IT HAS BEEN LONG ENOUGH."
 

milkan

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Eh, as I said, I don't think wars drag on enough for it to matter anyway.

And the current situation is a bit... odd.

"My lord, five years ago we declare war upon the Caliphate for their refusal to acknowledge the truth faith."
"Yes, and? We still war against them."
"Well, it has been decided that it's been long enough since we last justified a way this way that we may do so again."
"But the current war still goes o--"
"IT HAS BEEN LONG ENOUGH."

Haha, well it does seem perfectly justified for "FAITH WAITS FOR NO ONE!"
 

jordyjim

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hey theres the kingdom of castile-leon missing it was a historical kingdom that formed after castile and leon went into a union i created it if you want i can send it
 

zijistark

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"My lord, five years ago we declare war upon the Caliphate for their refusal to acknowledge the truth faith."
"Yes, and? We still war against them."
"Well, it has been decided that it's been long enough since we last justified a way this way that we may do so again."
"But the current war still goes o--"
"IT HAS BEEN LONG ENOUGH."

Haha, well it does seem perfectly justified for "FAITH WAITS FOR NO ONE!"

I love you guys.
 

Jamey

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I decided to fire up a game as the Hungarians in 867, with the intent of reforming Tengri and holding out there in the long term. Their initial war (and the form Hungary decision) have some interesting things going on:

1) You have something akin to the invasion CB, so you take all land personally which you control at the end of the war. This means you can take all of Bulgaria.

2) The Bulgarians apparently really like to rebel after you take the King of Bulgaria's land. I wound up using the console to kill a rebel duke who rebelled while I controlled half of his land (which results in you losing control of the rebellious land).

3) When you form Hungary, you lose all land which is not de jure Hungary to the Pechangs. That means that any extra land you control (say, all of Bulgaria) gets released to the Pechengs. That is a bit unfortunate, as you really set up a super Pecheng kingdom as your neighbor.
 

milkan

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I decided to fire up a game as the Hungarians in 867, with the intent of reforming Tengri and holding out there in the long term. Their initial war (and the form Hungary decision) have some interesting things going on:

1) You have something akin to the invasion CB, so you take all land personally which you control at the end of the war. This means you can take all of Bulgaria.

2) The Bulgarians apparently really like to rebel after you take the King of Bulgaria's land. I wound up using the console to kill a rebel duke who rebelled while I controlled half of his land (which results in you losing control of the rebellious land).

3) When you form Hungary, you lose all land which is not de jure Hungary to the Pechangs. That means that any extra land you control (say, all of Bulgaria) gets released to the Pechengs. That is a bit unfortunate, as you really set up a super Pecheng kingdom as your neighbor.

This is pretty much vanilla and has been present for a long time. I do not think PB changes it at all.
 

Jamey

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This is pretty much vanilla and has been present for a long time. I do not think PB changes it at all.
I'm pretty sure PB has some changes here, particularly the Pecheng takeover:

  • When Hungary is formed the Pechenegs get an event to move into their former territory, and Russians end up with the Russian provinces
  • The Magyars doesn't get a second doomstack upon forming Hungary
 

Raineh Daze

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I remember reporting the 'Pechenegs take all of non-de jure Hungary' thing months back. It's not vanilla, though. Vanilla leads to weird, messy splodges of counts.

Maybe it should be 'de jure (whatever kingdoms the Magyars start with/are in Tartaria' instead of 'not Hungary'?
 

Jamey

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I remember reporting the 'Pechenegs take all of non-de jure Hungary' thing months back. It's not vanilla, though. Vanilla leads to weird, messy splodges of counts.

Maybe it should be 'de jure (whatever kingdoms the Magyars start with/are in Tartaria' instead of 'not Hungary'?
I'd have to look at the setup when I get home, but that sounds reasonable to me. I'm wondering if maybe you start with something in k_bulgaria which would make that not work right, though.
 

Maal

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Not sure if it's intended or not, but i found some issue with the Baqt. I'm playing with that single jewish duke in Africa in 867 (using all the currently usable mods from hip). I conquered all the Pagans, all the Miaphysites... and all the Muslims in the empire. I'm now attacking Egypt and STILL have the Baqt active on all my dejure empire holdings beside the Jewish duchy i started with. I can't "choose" to violate it, it simply give me the advantages without any downside.

I had one character turn Miaphysite when he was pretty old to form a kingdom and it worked as intended then, but i just waited for him to die and kept the Baqt.
 

mlsmith45

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Sorry if I missed where you've put it, but is there a good list of the rules of shattered ballance? In particular, I'm looking for the rules around the conquer ruler cb. As a count, there are some counties that I attack, and others I can't. They all border my territory. I also noticed that once you declare yourself at duke, you get the subjugate ruler.

Thanks again for all your incredible work!!
 

zijistark

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Sorry if I missed where you've put it, but is there a good list of the rules of shattered ballance? In particular, I'm looking for the rules around the conquer ruler cb. As a count, there are some counties that I attack, and others I can't. They all border my territory. I also noticed that once you declare yourself at duke, you get the subjugate ruler.

Thanks again for all your incredible work!!

There's no official documentation, but here's a quick run-down:

First, there's the minor_conquest CB. To access this, you must:
  • Have no more counties than 8 (personally)
  • Unless you're not a duke and the enemy's realm borders your capital, have no more counties than 5 (personally)
  • Not have any count vassals (exception: enemy's realm borders your capital)
And the enemy must:
  • Have no more counties than 3
minor_conquest is the "demesne-building" CB. If you win these wars, you get all of the county titles from the enemy realm.

Next, we have the subjugation CB. To access this, you must simply no longer be a count, and one or both of the following must be true of your enemy:
  • Is a count
  • Has a realm with no more than 10 total holdings in it (realm size)
When you win these wars, they knock your enemy back down to a count if they weren't already, usurp any titles higher tier than count (if any), and you become their new liege.

Finally, we have the subjugation_duke CB which applies when you've made it to king-tier (or higher) and the enemy is a duke. This is a simple subjugation (you become their new liege), and the only limitation is that you can only apply it to enemies with realms with no more than 20 total holdings (realm size).

Beyond that, standard CB rules apply, aside from some loosened restrictions on holy war and such.
 

maitrecarotte

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I apologize for my laziness to check it myself, but are there any changes/additions to HRE to represent its decentralisation in PB? And whats even more important, if there are such changes, is there a possibility to overcome them eventually?
 

Think0028

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If you start up as the HRE, you'll notice you have the HRE specific law Decentralized HRE, and can pass a law to centralize it at the cost of huge vassal opinion malus.
 

mlsmith45

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Imperial Reconquest CB question: I started a game in 1204 as Trebezoid. I slowly got control of the ERE by first using my claim on the Nikea based empire. I slowly rebuilt the empire in Greece using the IR cb. I had most of the Latin Empire. Around 1230 the Ikanate came and completely destroyed me and Rum. So, in the interests of fun, I started a new game when the ERE had the land I had reconquered. However, when I tried using the IR CB to retake dejure land (specifically Hellas), I was unable to. Apparently I can't use it until I have all the dejure territory of the ERE. I understand the tier system, which I like, but I was under the impression that you use the CB to take each successive tier, including Tier 1. I thought Tier 1 included the dejure land.

What's the difference between my two starts? Why can I use the CB when I use my claim to get the ERE and not when I start the game as the ERE?