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zijistark

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Across five different rulers (in four restarts) I've died every time I've engaged in a battlefield duel. Are battlefield duels not winnable, or have I just been very unlucky?
They are definitely risky, particularly if you don't have the top-tier duel traits (which would correspond to Brilliant Strategists or Skilled Tacticians for startup characters, which have level 4/4 and 3/4, respectively). You've been unlucky, although if you know you probably don't have the stats to take on one of the candidate duelists and have the chance to flee, you may consider doing just that. Mortal combat is always fatal for one of the two combatants, and your ruler dying is a lot worse than a temporary morale hit during some random battle-- unless you're ready to die, of course.

But, yeah, unlucky. Try starting as a Brilliant Strategist to prove it (you'll automatically get the highest-tier Formidable Fighter duel trait and can then also easily train your children to be top notch fighters). Most AI duelists will just flee from you.
 

Raineh Daze

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They are definitely risky, particularly if you don't have the top-tier duel traits (which would correspond to Brilliant Strategists or Skilled Tacticians for startup characters, which have level 4/4 and 3/4, respectively). You've been unlucky, although if you know you probably don't have the stats to take on one of the candidate duelists and have the chance to flee, you may consider doing just that. Mortal combat is always fatal for one of the two combatants, and your ruler dying is a lot worse than a temporary morale hit during some random battle-- unless you're ready to die, of course.

But, yeah, unlucky. Try starting as a Brilliant Strategist to prove it (you'll automatically get the highest-tier Formidable Fighter duel trait and can then also easily train your children to be top notch fighters). Most AI duelists will just flee from you.

You're meant to automatically get it?
 

Meneth

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Rana is listed as a duchy in the 867 scenario at least. Isn't it supposed to be a county? Again, just a manner of names, but still... :p
No clue.
It's not. But it was / is in CK2+.

EDIT:

FWIW, it's ridiculously easy to mod-in considering that it is actually pretty cool. One just has to comb through the job_*.txt event files and add a few standard, mostly-unchanging lines of MTTH modifier blocks in the same way that vanilla has blocks of graded MTTH modifier for particular councillor job attribute skill levels. E.g., in job_chancellor.txt for the main claim fabrication event, something like this would go inside the existing MTTH block:

Code:
modifier = { factor = 1.05 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -99 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.05 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -80 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.05 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -60 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.05 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -40 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.05 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -20 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.05 not = { opinion = { who = liege value =   0 } } }
modifier = { factor = 0.95 opinion = { who = liege value = 20 } }
modifier = { factor = 0.95 opinion = { who = liege value = 40 } }
modifier = { factor = 0.95 opinion = { who = liege value = 60 } }
modifier = { factor = 0.95 opinion = { who = liege value = 80 } }
modifier = { factor = 0.95 opinion = { who = liege value = 100 } }
Updated to uses granularity of 20 opinion and include slight extra boost or malus for being totally hated or totally loved by the councillors. Factors not updated, because it's an example.

This is all that CK2+ does. Wiz basically used an equivalent set to my example. You would need a reversed template to paste into the "nasty events" (something goes wrong on the job for the councillor) with factors greater than 1 for the opinion bonuses and factors less than 1 for the maluses, to be complete, if you cared about being "complete." The something-nasty events (and they're the more numerous) are never what really matters to the player when they're trying to optimize their council, so I would not even add the "employment opinion factor" into them at all, making the changes even more minimal in terms of how much relative impact they have on the MTTH of balance-affecting events, only affecting highly visible things like religious conversion and claim fabrication.

Meneth, if I made a minimal patch with sets of modifiers like these in the right spots, would you look it over in a pull for PB? I've already got it in my personal play mod; I'd just want to minimize the patch and make sure, in a "vanilla PB" context, that the bonus/malus factors were reasonably small but still noticeable enough to the player to make "pleasing your councillors and avoiding those that hate you, despite a couple job attribute skill points' edge", an added layer of mechanic. LMK if so, as I wouldn't mind doing that at all, simple as it is.
I'll definitely consider it. I'm not sure giving a bonus for high opinion is a good idea though (at least not all the way up to 100), but a penalty for low opinion does seem in order.
Across five different rulers (in four restarts) I've died every time I've engaged in a battlefield duel. Are battlefield duels not winnable, or have I just been very unlucky?
You losing means the other side won; clearly winning isn't impossible ;)
You're meant to automatically get it?
On campaign start, anyone with a martial education gets a duel trait of the same level to give a base "seed" of sorts.
After campaign start, the best way to get a duel trait is to assign a guardian with a duel trait.
 

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Something odd. I started with the 867 scenario and the Viking invasion of East Anglia directly ended with East Anglia joining Wessex and the 30k Viking invasion army disappearing no where. Just wanted to put this in here. PB+SMWH.
 

Meneth

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Something odd. I started with the 867 scenario and the Viking invasion of East Anglia directly ended with East Anglia joining Wessex and the 30k Viking invasion army disappearing no where. Just wanted to put this in here. PB+SMWH.
Huh, that sounds rather strange. Is the issue reproducible?
The army should disappear when the war ends though; it was incredibly overpowered before I made that change.
 

Jolt

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Well, no SWMH helps narrow it down significantly. It's probably a lingering 2.0 integration issue for PB (though vanilla could theoretically be the one at fault, though that's no excuse to not fix it for PB users) related to holy order events/titles. How long have you been playing the save? Issue might've already been fixed in PB de jure but the underpinning issue still lingering in your save-game de facto if it was started with an earlier version of PB.

Just to continue:

I did try continuing from an earlier autosave and it no longer crashed. If I'm not mistaken, the game was crashing in 9th of March 1303 (Just not sure about the year). I didn't upgrade the game after starting that save.
 

Raineh Daze

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Fylkir, Moral Authority 100%, the textbox about GHW's has shown up... can't start one. Anything to do with this?

Other interesting point: it's not just Immortal that disappears when loading a save. It's Celibate, too. For... some reason.
 

zijistark

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Other interesting point: it's not just Immortal that disappears when loading a save. It's Celibate, too. For... some reason.
The trait shuffling whenever Paradox adds a trait is entirely based upon the numeric order in which the traits are defined. Even if PB didn't add congenital traits and a few special ones (immortal, duel engine, etc.), this is a problem for save-game compatibility when the order changes because, e.g., a new leadership trait was added in the middle of the vanilla traits. But since PB does add traits at all, every change to vanilla traits reshuffles the numeric indexing of the traits (e.g., made-up: trait 19 now means "scholar" instead of "poet," but your save-game only stores a 19).

Of course, PB could future-proof against some of this by adding a few placeholder traits at the beginning and end of the boundaries between PB's additional traits and then reassigning the placeholder traits in the future as needed to maintain consistent numeric indexing. Not a very pretty, complete, or low-maintenance solution, though.

EDIT: If PB used traits for targeting that wasn't transient or anything else that was actually game-changing in the main module, I'd advise using a buffer of placeholder traits around the PB traits, though. Half to avoid mystifying users combined with a lack of an FAQ around here, half for the pragmatic compatibility engineering concerns. Of course, adding the placeholder traits (traits that are impossible to get & do nothing & don't show up in Ruler Designer but reserve a known numeric index offset from vanilla to be repurposed later) would also be save-incompatible the first time they're introduced; they'd just allow control over stopping this nonsense in the future when either PB adds more traits or vanilla adds more traits, up to a certain point. Also, no possible measurable extra runtime overhead for having the placeholders sitting there unused, with the max. trait ID currently well below 200; assuming PDS is doing the obvious thing, they can support one trait ID per bit in a character object bitmask.
 
Last edited:

Meneth

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Of course, PB could future-proof against some of this by adding a few placeholder traits at the beginning and end of the boundaries between PB's additional traits and then reassigning the placeholder traits in the future as needed to maintain consistent numeric indexing. Not a very pretty, complete, or low-maintenance solution, though.
Yeah, I think I'll do that the next time I know trait order is going to break anyway.
It's really silly how Paradox tied traits to numerical IDs rather than their actual internal names, considering a ton of other things are tied to internal names rather than numerical IDs.
 

zijistark

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I'll definitely consider it. I'm not sure giving a bonus for high opinion is a good idea though (at least not all the way up to 100), but a penalty for low opinion does seem in order.
Yeah, I think it should be more of a malus overall than a bonus, and, at the extremes of opinion, it should never swing a bonus/malus larger than equivalent swing from 1.5-2 skill points (probably 0.5-0.75 of a skill point on the maximum bonus side). The whole spectrum should still make a difference (which player-visibly changes the advertised "yearly chance" for job action events), though.

The AI doesn't reason about councillor opinions directly (though is encouraged in other ways to do things that lead to high councillor opinion), and councillors at game start are auto-assigned purely on skill level. Ergo, one should tread lightly, 'lest the AI receive a net malus at the expense of the informed player (well, limit the extent).

I'll look into this then. And actually balance it.

EDIT:
I whipped up my favorite tool for net MTTH calculation and calibration, a simple perl script that encodes the MTTH spec, generates an appropriate data set over which to evaluate it, and prints out the code for me (then just tweak the ranges and modifiers until one likes the properties of the curve), and I worked out what I think to be an appropriately-balanced set of MTTH modifiers for councillor opinion. It rather harshly penalizes poor opinion (<0), generally penalizes all opinion <20 (they have a countervailing opinion bonus for being on the council, so +20 is essentially the balancing point), extra harshly penalizes the -100 (e.g., you revoked their title) case, is neutral for 20-35 (the only interval which is not in grades of 20), then provides a more slight and predictable bonus curve up to 95, where it maxes at a total -15% bonus modifier (only 60% of the bonus provided by a single, marginal councillor attribute point in these events).

At -100 opinion, it magically works out to a whopping 50% MTTH malus. At [-99,-80), it drops to a 38% malus, then a 30% malus [-80,-60), then 23% [-60,-40), then 16% [-40,-20), then 9% [-20,0), then 3% [0,20), neutral for [20,35), then -4% bonus for [35,55), -8% bonus for [55,75), and, as already mentioned, finally caps out at a -15% bonus (0.85) at 95 opinion and up.

I think this will play very well with all the existing MTTHs, as if anything, it's erring on the side of slowing things down when your councillors are selected purely for skill, and in the most perfectly optimized of councils (not that it's terribly hard to select compatible councillors and treat them right), we only see a 15% speed-up, which is greatly overshadowed by other MTTH factors in most cases. Despite the relative subtlety, it should still succeed at mattering enough to add more depth to council management with very little added complexity (particularly when you're playing a character that is no True Christian Knight and it's a choice between either a -40 courtier with higher skill or a less-skilled vassal for which you can pull-in a few favors). The granularity is sufficient to make all your actions toward your councillors potentially have a noticeable effect on their work quality, yet the stacking modifiers only take a total of 11 single-cheap-condition one-liners.

FWIW:

Code:
modifier = { factor = 1.09 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -99 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.06 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -80 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.06 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -60 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.06 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -40 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.06 not = { opinion = { who = liege value = -20 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.06 not = { opinion = { who = liege value =   0 } } }
modifier = { factor = 1.03 not = { opinion = { who = liege value =  20 } } }
modifier = { factor = 0.96 opinion = { who = liege value = 35 } }
modifier = { factor = 0.96 opinion = { who = liege value = 55 } }
modifier = { factor = 0.96 opinion = { who = liege value = 75 } }
modifier = { factor = 0.96 opinion = { who = liege value = 95 } }

All easily tune-able, of course. I'll let that sit for a short bit before I move to the relatively tedious task of actually applying it (and potentially its inverse, appropriately) to all the relevant job events. After that, expect a pull request.

Note: I can merely generate and copy/paste a differently-tuned modifier set into the modified events, if it should seem so appropriate, so there's no hurry to get the MTTH curve correct on the first swing. I still have to go through them all [the events] and select those which should be affected (incl. some of those nasty events where you want the inverse MTTH curve; e.g., perhaps the ai_chance modifiers for a noble successfully bribing your chancellor, although technically in that case it's the same curve since it's an ai_chance rather than a MTTH). I've just put these one-size-fits-all numbers out for RFC purposes.
 
Last edited:

zijistark

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Just to continue:

I did try continuing from an earlier autosave and it no longer crashed. If I'm not mistaken, the game was crashing in 9th of March 1303 (Just not sure about the year). I didn't upgrade the game after starting that save.
Thank you for reporting. I don't know all the historical events which would kick-off around then off the top of my head, but it's a data point: a most-likely-major-event crash, probably for an event enabled at 1300 and ending as late as 1350, fully-reproducible with the same random seed in the save-game but potentially missed if the event doesn't fire under a certain, probably simple, set of circumstances.

[Timurids? My late game event knowledge sucks.]

Which DLCs did you have enabled for the game? [Not the content-only DLCs: important ones would be Sunset Invasion, The Old Gods, Sons of Abraham, etc.]

From what bookmark / date did the game start, and who did you play (and your associated religion and culture, while you're at it)? Only one more piece of information to make the data point complete: anything else weird happen? Stuff like Jews forming the Kingdom of Israel, Zoroastrians taking over, how did the Mongol invasions go (did they end up converting religions? to which? did either horde get wiped out by the other? which of the khanates were already active when you first started the game?), and other stuff depending upon just how long of a playthrough this was.

Probably won't look into it beyond that for now since you're good to go personally, but it'd be good to get those answers on record in case it ever comes up again or an issue is noticed while working on something else. Nothing worse than bugs that totally bork late-game playthroughs.
 

Raineh Daze

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The thing is, the traits are disappearing and not being replaced--it's happening entirely within one version. I save, return to the title, load the game--Celibate and Immortal (and possibly Viking) have all gone.
 

strong bird

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With the latest patch matrilineal marriages are unlocked for everyone. I have them enabled but the Muslim UI doesn't have them enabled so they aren't being used. I've tried to figure out how to, but haven't been able to so far. Does anyone have any clue about how? The reason why I'm asking here is because I think it would be a good addition to the equality module.
 

zijistark

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With the latest patch matrilineal marriages are unlocked for everyone. I have them enabled but the Muslim UI doesn't have them enabled so they aren't being used. I've tried to figure out how to, but haven't been able to so far. Does anyone have any clue about how? The reason why I'm asking here is because I think it would be a good addition to the equality module.
This has recently come-up in the "Modding - Quick Questions" Thread (although it's not that quick of an answer). The short of it is that the Muslim UI needs to at least be extended to include the matrilineal checkbox above the character arrangement window, so you'd be experimenting inside .gui files, trying to make the muslim marriage screen have the same widgets as the catholic marriage screen.

As far as gender equality, not even true cognatic succession is granted to muslims in PB's GE module or in CK2+'s GE module for that matter (they need to have open agnatic to function properly, plus polygamy + ability to land sons and daughters without incurring decadence on daughters is OP), so I doubt anyone around here is motivated to get matrilineal marriages working for them [in the UI, since it's already on by default if it's not specifically turned-off in the religion definition]. I'd like to see it done by someone for the hell of it, though. I know very little about GUI modding in Clausewitz games, sadly.

If you want to do it on your own, make sure matrilineal marriage is not specifically turned off in the muslim religion definition, then search the interface/ folder until you find the arrange marriage diplointeraction window, then find the analogue in the muslim subfolder, then try to carefully replace the muslim with the generic one. See the Quick Questions thread for more proper guidance (I hope).
 

Sparticulous

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A bug that i dont know if it was already brought up. The miaphysite religion doesnt have a religious head while playing project balance and swmh. Though the coptics do but the coptic heresy doesnt make sense if coptic is included in miaphysite
 

Meneth

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So, how's the faction overhaul going? Seems like a very neat improvement. Is it available yet?
You can download it here.
It'll be in the next version of PB or the one after; haven't quite decided yet. Next version of PB will be released after I get back home to Trondheim on the 3rd (so the release will be somewhere between the 3rd and the 5th most likely).
 

eranam

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You can download it here.
It'll be in the next version of PB or the one after; haven't quite decided yet. Next version of PB will be released after I get back home to Trondheim on the 3rd (so the release will be somewhere between the 3rd and the 5th most likely).

Wow, thanks for the swift answer ! (and updates :D)
 

zijistark

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To those who'd asked: I went ahead with the "councillor opinion affects job performance" patch. Meneth has it in his queue for review now (for the beta branch).
 

Meneth

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To those who'd asked: I went ahead with the "councillor opinion affects job performance" patch. Meneth has it in his queue for review now (for the beta branch).
Merged into branch.
Next time, do write a changelog entry so that I don't have to make a commit purely for that ;)