Project Balance

[Meneth]

This doesn't appear to be working. I'm seeing characters with less than 10 in a skill with the ambition to hold the post that skill relates to even though they have a higher stat in another skill which is over 10.

Seems it got lost along the way somehow. I'll fix it.

 

[Meneth]

I'm guessing this is hardcoded, but is there a way to let Merchant Republics change their Capitols in any way?

It feels silly leading the Serene Republic of Sweden from Gotland.

I have absolutely no idea

 

[Meneth]

I guess so. Here's a secret: I rarely actually 'play' the game.

You and me both.
Though I do have occasional regular games in order to see if there's anything I should change. Haven't had time for that since 1.08 though-

 

[Meneth]

I don't seem to be able to push a de jure ducal claim even though the game agrees I should be able to.
View attachment 71472
View attachment 71473

I can press the claim against the King of Norway for Caithness perfectly fine though.

Assuming you're using 3.1 or above, that CB should be pretty much exactly like vanilla, so I have no idea what's causing the issue.

 

[Meneth]

Well historically there was major trade empires in two places: The Baltic and the Mediterranean.
Something needs to be in western Europe to stop the Baltic and Mediterranean republics from easily expanding there, which would essentially be the point of adding more republics.
As to adding more in the Mediterranean itself, I do believe it is possible to have republics start with less than 5 tradeposts? In that case it'd be easy enough to add weak republics that will eventually be absorbed into Venice, Genoa, or Pisa.

 

[Meneth]

Yep I'm running 3.1.2.
It works in vanilla 1.09 as I did the exact same thing the other day before I started my PB game.
Save file attached if it helps.

The save definitely helped. I think I've finally tracked down the issue, and I'll be fixing it next patch.
On that note, 3.1.3 will be released tomorrow (Saturday).

I like what I've seen so far in PB. However I find that the only plots available are either kill a character or revoke a title, which is quite a short list compared to CK2+'s array of plots (heresy, kidnap, embezzle, etc.)

Will the number of plots be expanded in PB in the future?

Some more plots would definitely be nice to have. The main issue is coming up with good objectives and properly balancing them.
If people have any suggestions for plots/objectives I'd be happy to code a few, perhaps even in time for the patch tomorrow.

 

[Meneth]

@Sqwerlpunk: Can't actually target an uncreated title to my knowledge. Might be possible to do it anyway though, but I can't quite see how right this moment.

 

[Meneth]

In my testing, I found you can only target an uncreated title by tag name (d_whatever), not by checking primary_title = { is_vassal_or_below = ROOT } or something nice like that. So while you could write such a plot I think you'd need to include every single duchy tag from landed_titles in there and it'd be a major slowdown of the game to check.

You can probably target it via dejure_liege_title

 

[Meneth]

I'll still state my case for Ragusa. Seriously. It should exist.

Anyways, there isn't some way to seriously hamper trade post growth and base it on tech levels, is there? I feel like that would keep the republics inside the Med for a bit, and keep Visby east of the Kattegat. Then, events could establish local hansa (like, per city) and maybe require that their posts only be built in the northern portion of Europe? Maybe do an alliance or make a requirement for a title of the Hanseatic League after the 1350's?

I could imagine a whole series of events, like English burghers demanding revocation of trading rights, or the establishment of Baltic piracy republics.

Seeing as Ragusa is historical, I have no problem with implementing it once someone has made a decent mini-mod.
Yes, it'd definitely be possible to rebalance trade-posts so they actually have to be upgraded in order for them to make much money, and have some of those upgrades depend on tech.

I propose at first those already present in CK2+ (kidnap, forge proofs of treason, discredit councillor/vassal, embezzle money, accuse of heresy, forge claim on county/duchy).

I'm sure you can obtain Wiz's permission for these plots without problem.

I prefer to code my own stuff rather than taking it from major mods
But most of those sound like decent ideas, so I might end up implementing some like that. Forge claim on county/duchy already exists in vanilla though.

There's also the seduce liege plot from Additional Objectives.

That's also a possibility.

I'd love to see the family estate mechanic implemented for all dynasties, or something similar. It makes historical sense for a feudal lord family to have assets beyond just the land they rule.

Granted, I don't know if this is even possible. Maybe a simplified system such as through a decision?

I'm not sure that's doable in any decent way.

was wondering if it would be possible to add "Designated Heir" from republics for everyone else? and work it so you play as the heir but the normal rules on succession is kept. just for example, if your a king with gravekind succession and have to 2 sons, the you could make the youngest your "designated heir" but the oldest would still become king and gain most of your holding like normal, but you would instead be played as the youngest.

i've been sort of doing this by using commands but the prestige and history glitches.

Doesn't seem to be possible.

Two things:

1) I am pretty sure the mod 'Family Relations' is compatible with Project Balance. I didn't see it in the list of compatible mods on the first page, so thought I should tell you this.

2) And on to the bug. I am not sure if this is mod bug or if it is a vanilla bug, but I decided to post it here first and see if it is a mod bug

The setting: I am running 1.09 with Project Balance and Family Relations. No Republic/SoI/Rome DLC.
The bug:

I am playing as the duke of Norfolk and he is also the Chancellor of England. The King of England has assigned him to fabricate claims in Anjou.

When I throw a Feast or a Grand Hunt, the message box says, "I have decided to organize the event in Anjou". Anjou! He is just there to fabricate claims for his liege and he decides to organize a grand hunt there?! Naturally, the program is looking for the character's current location which seems kinda silly. Is this a mod-induced bug or should I post it in the main bugs forum?

1) Looks compatible; no file overlap. I'll add it to the list.
2) Definitely a vanilla bug.

 

[Meneth]

Right, so I've been considering adding a low base-cost to all wars, to keep the map slightly more static.
Something like 50-100 Prestige and 25-50 Piety for example. Would make it easy enough to go to war for good reasons, but somewhat more difficult to just spam wars all over the place.
It'd also be possible to add a gold cost to represent that warfare is quite costly business.

I'm also considering adding a tax modifier for being at war. Perhaps -40% or so? It'd make it more difficult to keep long wars running, and encourage decisive wars over long affairs of attrition.

 

[Meneth]

Would this apply to all casus belli? 25-50 piety is a lot in the early part of the game. Would make expansion all but impossible for the player & I can't imagine trying to do historic things like the reconquista with that unless winning a war against a ruler of an 'opposing' religion gives piety. If it's a requirement rather than a cost then I have no qualms as there's plenty of things which already cost prestige and piety.

The tax modifier makes sense. If half the realm is off conquering, they're not going to be around to generate income.

Any ETA on the next update? The de jure claim bug is pretty much stopping me playing.

It'd apply to all CBs, but it is entirely possible to give the cost back upon starting the war.
Holy War gives 100 participation-scaled Piety, so 100 piety is shared between all parties. It also gives 50 participation-scaled prestige.

ETA on next patch is later today. So sometime within the next 10 hours.

 

[Meneth]

As those costs are set in Defines, the AI should be able to handle it fine.

 

[Meneth]

I have another thing to report. I don't know if this is a bug or if you intended it this way, but I have a character in my court called Project Balance. He is a Romuva pagan child of 4 in my Icelandic court, playing as the count of Vestisland. What am I supposed to do with him now?

Whatever you like. He's there to set off the start-up event. I suppose I should change his date of birth so he dies instantly on campaign start, though.

 

[Meneth]

Meneth, I have to say that to see Of Wessex seize power in England 5 years into the game was a bit strange

That does sound a bit strange.

 

[Meneth]

It's definitely a good idea, though it might require some testing to be properly balanced - and concerning the tax modifier it shouldn't be *that* costly or else nothing would happen at all. I myself was thinking of having a small prestige cost for wars in VIET, too, though I think a piety cost wouldn't really work (for reasons I can't remember - I discussed this with someone else in my VIET thread).

A small (25 perhaps) Piety cost seems reasonable, to keep your religious head from raising a fuss and all that.
Yeah, -40% might be overdoing it, though then again you'll be getting +2% for every point of Stewardship, so in practice it won't actually reduce your income by 40% but by less, depending on how high your Stewardship is.

 

[Meneth]

Yeah, a small cost would be good. Would also keep down the ridiculous amounts of prestige and piety people can get.

Now I vaguely remember what I was talking about - in the VIET thread Bertouch was telling me how CK2+ had large piety costs for waging holy wars, which didn't make sense to him (and me) because, well, yes, it might have balanced things out, but it's a holy war, why would you be losing piety? So actually that's not really related at all. Well, sort of. I would say the holy wars maybe have a prestige loss rather than a piety loss. Losing piety to gain piety kind of doesn't make sense, even if it's a good balance tweak.

It really depends on what you consider Piety to be a measure of. If you consider it as religious 'capital', then having to use some in order to go to war makes perfect sense, and then gaining more authority/capital upon winning religious wars.

 

[Meneth]

Fair enough. I would disagree with that interpretation, but if it's a small cost I think I can live with that. Others almost certainly, too. Hard to interpret these things and all. It's like taking more liberal arts courses all over again.

But if this gets the HRE and France out of West Africa and to keep them where they belong then I'm more than willing to change my interpretation.

I'm implementing a 50 Prestige and 25 Piety cost to begin with. I'll modify that further (if needed) based on feedback.
I'm also adding -40% to tax while at war.

Patch will be released in about one hour, so now is the time to tell me about anything urgent.
Current changelog:

• Implemented the Icelandic Republic mini-mod
• Removed the North/South German split as it is no longer needed; other measures destabilize the HRE enough. Saves from earlier versions will still have the culture split
• Byzantium is now called the Byzantine Empire once more
• Increased the cost of building trade posts from 150 to 200
• Reduced the tax income from trade posts from 6 to 5
• Reduced the tax income from family palances from 10 to 8
• The "become councilor" ambitions once more require at least 10 points in the relevant skill
• Women can now take the "become councilor" ambitions as long as the gender laws allow it (true cognatic for chancellor, agnatic-cognatic for treasurer, any for spymaster)
• Being at war gives a -40% modifier to tax income
• The Seize Coastal City CB can now only be used if you own a trade-post in the same province
• Declaring war now costs 50 Prestige and 25 Piety

 

[Meneth]

How about implementing the Hamburg Republic mini mod to balance Gotland ?

I believe this was dicussed before, but i already can't remember what's been written 3 pages ago.:unsure:

I'm going to be implementing it once it has a 1066 version. I'm also going to be implementing the Novgorod mini-mod once it has events setting up the republic even if one starts from 1066. I'll probably also implement a couple Mediterranean republics and such too.

PB's been exploding with posts in the last week since 1.09 came out.

Yeah, 335 posts in the 5 days since I released 3.1.0. At that rate it'd only take ~40 days to go from 0 to 2626, the current post number.

 

[Meneth]

PB's been exploding with posts in the last week since 1.09 came out.

BTW, permission to integrate the Hormuz republic?
To everyone else: Does a Hormuz republic sound okay?

 

[Meneth]

I certainly approve.

(Though to be honest I would also advise having jordarkelf's Yemen in as well, so Hormuz has someone to compete with.)

(Also you may want to change the Indian characters to a different culture with different names IF nobody likes having Indians in the... Indian... Ocean. But if everybody's cool with Indians then more power to them.)

Sure, I'll implement that as well.