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Meneth

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Two mods have sadly been removed from the list of compatible mods due to not being updated for the later patches:

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I refused the Pope's demand for papal investiture, so I got excommunicated. I created an antipope and lifted my excommunication, but the same event keeps firing.
Thanks, a fix has now been pushed to the beta branch.
 

chemical_art

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Meneth, I've been playing around values within the mod, and thought I'd share what I found helped my merc conundrum.

Let me first backup though in saying I don't like how as a ruler I can raise all my levies and still make money.

What I did was...

---
Multiplied maintenance costs of all units by 2.
Increased cost to hire mercs from 0.1 to 0.2
Reduce vassal levies cost to 0.1
Reduced Holy orders cost to 0.15
Reduced liege-vassal maintenance cost to 0.65
Reduced some mercenaries strength
Increased AI income on harder difficulties significantly

---
The result in my tests so far is that mercs are good in AI hands because they seldom use them to begin with so are not that effected, but in player hands take a lot longer between "surges". Wars are more costly to lieges, but vassals don't get hit so hard.

I don't know if you have thought about increasing the cost to hire (not upkeep) for mercenaries, or increasing upkeep in general, but those were the largest changes I did to help bring this matter back into balance.
 

chemical_art

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Is the required 2000 piety to reform the Norse religion not a little steep? 1000 piety is extremely hard, but 2000 in one character's lifetime seems impossible to get?

In general, reforming any religion (including mending the christian schism) is an event of such magnitude in history that your name would live on for thousands of years. You have to be a saint among saints.

The 2000 piety requirement is meant to help address this. That said, when it was done for the schism event, you could get fat amounts of piety from taking the holy sees. On the other land, as pagans your vassal temples give you piety as well...


Anyway, you have to have a ruler who throughout their life do the equivalent of miracles and live old enough to get the piety.
 

Meneth

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Is the required 2000 piety to reform the Norse religion not a little steep? 1000 piety is extremely hard, but 2000 in one character's lifetime seems impossible to get?
AFAIK you should only need 750.

Meneth, I've been playing around values within the mod, and thought I'd share what I found helped my merc conundrum.

Let me first backup though in saying I don't like how as a ruler I can raise all my levies and still make money.

What I did was...

---
Multiplied maintenance costs of all units by 2.
Increased cost to hire mercs from 0.1 to 0.2
Reduce vassal levies cost to 0.1
Reduced Holy orders cost to 0.15
Reduced liege-vassal maintenance cost to 0.65
Reduced some mercenaries strength
Increased AI income on harder difficulties significantly

---
The result in my tests so far is that mercs are good in AI hands because they seldom use them to begin with so are not that effected, but in player hands take a lot longer between "surges". Wars are more costly to lieges, but vassals don't get hit so hard.

I don't know if you have thought about increasing the cost to hire (not upkeep) for mercenaries, or increasing upkeep in general, but those were the largest changes I did to help bring this matter back into balance.
Do note that the maintenance cost thing will also essentially break retinue balance by halving the amount you can get.
I feel that mercs shouldn't cost extreme amounts to hire, which is why I halved it in the first place.

"Reduce vassal levies cost to 0.1
Reduced liege-vassal maintenance cost to 0.65"
I've got no idea where you're modifying these, though one I assume is LIEGE_LEVY_COST_MULTIPLIER.
 

cybrxkhan

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A minor suggestion for the 867 start - since West Africa is going to be a mess of tiny counties due to not having any proper history, as a temporary half-fix, I suggest doing something similar to Shattered Balance where the engine randomly chooses three W. African realms and gives them some free troops/gold/prestige/piety, that way at least some sizable West African state should be able to form within a couple of decades, instead of it remaining in a sort of permanent limbo as nobody is able to conquer anybody.
 

Meneth

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A minor suggestion for the 867 start - since West Africa is going to be a mess of tiny counties due to not having any proper history, as a temporary half-fix, I suggest doing something similar to Shattered Balance where the engine randomly chooses three W. African realms and gives them some free troops/gold/prestige/piety, that way at least some sizable West African state should be able to form within a couple of decades, instead of it remaining in a sort of permanent limbo as nobody is able to conquer anybody.
They do slowly consolidate via war and inheritance, so I think they're ok in their current state.
Don't want them to merge into a single kingdom by 1066 after all.
 

chemical_art

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Do note that the maintenance cost thing will also essentially break retinue balance by halving the amount you can get.
I feel that mercs shouldn't cost extreme amounts to hire, which is why I halved it in the first place.

If practice, I need mercs to either crush the main enemy army, to smash a few lands quickly (if war is large) or to siege a small land you couldn't otherwise (typically count v count). In all these instances, I need mercs for at most 3 years, usually more like 2. So the upfront cost is the main deterrent cost for me.

To cite an example in my single county game, in which I DoW for fabricated claims, I hired the Irish band. In vanhilla it is 95 gold to hire and 6.75 per month. I need one year to win the war (3 months to get mercs to full strength, DoW, smash their army in 2 weeks, then 9 months to siege the land down) So the cost total cost is an initial 95 up front and 81 over 12 months. Seems balance. The catch, though, is I get a good 10 gold from the siege and over those 12 months I'm also earning (vanhilla values again) around 1 gold a month, even with levies. So in practice in terms of "negative balance" which is what really matters, it is 95 up front, and an additional 60 gold. So in this case, it is a 3 / 2 split.

In a larger game, the mercs go from "whole army" to "significant addition". In this case, the mercs are used not because I couldn't win otherwise, it is used so it takes what would be a 10 year war due to sieges down to around 3 due to storming castles. While on paper in this case the total cost of the merc may be more due to upkeep (the balance point is a bit over 14 months). However, this is over 3 years, where passive income makes the actually "dent" smaller, and those sieges rake in income as well. Again, the upfront cost is what really makes the impact, the upkeep is prohibitive only during peace.

As for maintenance costs and it wrecking retinues, I don't like how increasing unit costs affects retinues (not that it is hard to fix, but it is very time consuming), but I don't know how to increase levy_costs as a coefficient since I cannot find such a modifier. Is there such a place where levies costs themselves are increased, as opposed to individual components of it? Of so I'd much rather do that, but I can't find it. If I could I'd increase that and do the merc cost separately. Or I could do a at_war modifier to reduce income rate, but I don't like that so much for it reduces the value of economic buildings while increasing levy costs makes economic buildings valuable.

"Reduce vassal levies cost to 0.1
Reduced liege-vassal maintenance cost to 0.65"
I've got no idea where you're modifying these, though one I assume is LIEGE_LEVY_COST_MULTIPLIER.

Typos, yikes. The first one is vassal mercenaries, in effect making their costs the same while normal mercs increase. The second one is the one you correctly refereed too, which as far as I can tell simply reduces vassal costs when liege uses their units.
 
Last edited:

chemical_art

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Given mercs cost, an alternative would be for mercs to have a massive increase in monthly cost (I'm thinking double the currently cost) in return for a trivial amount of initial income (around 2 months worth).

That would be worthwhile for really, really short term use of mercanaries (basically, to crush another army, which from my readings is what mercenaries did anyway).

I'll test out this line of thought.
 

Jamey

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AFAIK you should only need 750.
I reformed the Norse religion this afternoon at a piety cost of 750. That plus forming Scandinavia left me with less than 100 piety, so I had to delay my first holy war for a while...
 

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hi @ all

your mod is great meneth,

i want to report two issues i consider bugs, i don´t know if they are already know to you,

first if i take the hold a fest options, the fest never happens and the option to hold a fest vanishes out of the intrigue options list, is this supposed to happen (i am playing an Frankish catholic duke)
second the tournaments are buggy i thing, i regularly get the event "you should not see this event but a bug has happened and this event fixes that" but the tournaments never happen

by the way
the imprisonment issue i mentioned is happening regularly everywhere, its always funny to see someone imprisoning himself after he reconquered his capital

thanks for all
 

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The latest version of PB uses the vanilla tourney system. The feast event chain can takes months to start after using the decision.

Meneth: If a liberation revolt is successful and it creates a kingdom that was not held by the losing side, the new kingdom does not get a revocation crown law assigned. You may also need to do the same fix you did to crusades, as I saw Persia be liberated into a gigantic republic.

e: They also don't get an external inheritance law.
 
Last edited:

SSeth

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@ fairleystuff
that explains the tourney thing
"The feast event chain can takes months to start after using the decision." okay but @ my game after decades without war nothing happens
 

G.Strategos

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Given mercs cost, an alternative would be for mercs to have a massive increase in monthly cost (I'm thinking double the currently cost) in return for a trivial amount of initial income (around 2 months worth).

That would be worthwhile for really, really short term use of mercanaries (basically, to crush another army, which from my readings is what mercenaries did anyway).

I'll test out this line of thought.

It's not a bad idea...
 

Meneth

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Given mercs cost, an alternative would be for mercs to have a massive increase in monthly cost (I'm thinking double the currently cost) in return for a trivial amount of initial income (around 2 months worth).

That would be worthwhile for really, really short term use of mercanaries (basically, to crush another army, which from my readings is what mercenaries did anyway).

I'll test out this line of thought.
I'll consider it. Unlikely it'll make it into the next patch though.
hi @ all

your mod is great meneth,

i want to report two issues i consider bugs, i don´t know if they are already know to you,

first if i take the hold a fest options, the fest never happens and the option to hold a fest vanishes out of the intrigue options list, is this supposed to happen (i am playing an Frankish catholic duke)
second the tournaments are buggy i thing, i regularly get the event "you should not see this event but a bug has happened and this event fixes that" but the tournaments never happen

by the way
the imprisonment issue i mentioned is happening regularly everywhere, its always funny to see someone imprisoning himself after he reconquered his capital

thanks for all
The feast should start between October and December as long as you're not at war and not in prison.
I'll get rid of that tourney event as it is no longer needed.
The current beta branch should fix the imprisonment issue.
The latest version of PB uses the vanilla tourney system. The feast event chain can takes months to start after using the decision.

Meneth: If a liberation revolt is successful and it creates a kingdom that was not held by the losing side, the new kingdom does not get a revocation crown law assigned. You may also need to do the same fix you did to crusades, as I saw Persia be liberated into a gigantic republic.

e: They also don't get an external inheritance law.
I'll look into.
 

unmerged(346462)

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hey i recently picked up your mod and i find it a very nice improvement over the vanilla game. im kinda new to modding in ck2 though and im having some issues when im trying to play. there seems to be an excessive amount of lag when i try to play using pb+swmh+viet+ark combo do you have any idea what might be causing this i already tried disabling viet core and immersion and it didn't help
 

Meneth

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hey i recently picked up your mod and i find it a very nice improvement over the vanilla game. im kinda new to modding in ck2 though and im having some issues when im trying to play. there seems to be an excessive amount of lag when i try to play using pb+swmh+viet+ark combo do you have any idea what might be causing this i already tried disabling viet core and immersion and it didn't help
Assuming the slowdown lasts more than a few months it's entirely possible your PC just isn't quite powerful enough to handle it. I'd recommend disabling mods until the slowdown goes away, starting with the mods you enjoy the least.
It's likely that the culprit is either SWMH or VIET though; both can take a decent amount of resources, especially SWMH.
 

unmerged(346462)

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Assuming the slowdown lasts more than a few months it's entirely possible your PC just isn't quite powerful enough to handle it. I'd recommend disabling mods until the slowdown goes away, starting with the mods you enjoy the least.
It's likely that the culprit is either SWMH or VIET though; both can take a decent amount of resources, especially SWMH.

thanks ill try that i dont think its my pc though i have 24 gig ram and 4gig i5 and a gtx680 so it might just be a problem with one of there mods, thanks for the help
 

chemical_art

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For a point of reference, my rust bucket (2.0 ghz, 4gb ram, 256mb gfx) can run PB + VIET (full) and I haven't experienced any noticeable slowdown over centuries. The closest thing is that on my rust bucket over a long term (real-time, not game time) I need to restart the game due to RAM issues, but this is a symptom of CK 2 itself (although mods can exasperate it).
 

Jamey

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Out of curiosity, has anyone gotten a reward from the convert province ambition event other than +1 learning? I had a cluster of conversions and my character wound up with +4 learning. Given the 25% probability, the odds are 1 in 256 for it to happen randomly. I just don't tend to pay too much attention to that reward. :)

One interesting thing about raids. It looks like the Center of Trade buildings greatly increase the cash you get from sacking the city. I raided Brugge and Gent and sacked them down (no levies due to a war means a thin candy shell for tasty gold!). For the former, I got over 100 gold for sacking the city. For the latter, I got around 25. The base tax is 21.2 versus 12.4, so there's a non-linear scaling there. I'm not sure it's really a bug (or that anything can be done about it). It definitely means that I'm targeting Centers of Trade going forward.