Project Balance

[jordarkelf]

Frankly, I'm a little sad that they didn't just bother to put in some of these in vanilla to begin with - they could have just focused on the five big ones, sure, but there's plenty possible, and it's a good thing that PB will add some of this (and my silly little VIET mod too, and almost certainly many other mods as well)

I will not be adding any more republics to my game, the default ones plus Aden and Iceland are enough for me. Aden I added mostly as a lark, and Iceland actually makes sense since there was no trade there from the Hansa. I've actually modded the Hansa events in my game so the Hansa CANNOT form if Gotland still exists.
Adding too many republics takes away the uniqueness of their gameplay for me. I want to see major trading empires like the merchant leagues actually had, and not a splintered map of random seazones held by a republic here and there, which is what adding too many will lead to. At least Aden and Iceland are in historically empty areas.

But to each his own.

As for not playing - I play on a my laptop (starte with a 1.07 save updated manually to 1.09 now with a lot of stuff back-modded in and of course using MyMod), my desktop I use mainly to mod and run quick test games.

 

[Meneth]

Well historically there was major trade empires in two places: The Baltic and the Mediterranean.
Something needs to be in western Europe to stop the Baltic and Mediterranean republics from easily expanding there, which would essentially be the point of adding more republics.
As to adding more in the Mediterranean itself, I do believe it is possible to have republics start with less than 5 tradeposts? In that case it'd be easy enough to add weak republics that will eventually be absorbed into Venice, Genoa, or Pisa.

 

[Drakken]

I like what I've seen so far in PB. However I find that the only plots available are either kill a character or revoke a title, which is quite a short list compared to CK2+'s array of plots (heresy, kidnap, embezzle, etc.)

Will the number of plots be expanded in PB in the future?

 

[Meneth]

Yep I'm running 3.1.2.
It works in vanilla 1.09 as I did the exact same thing the other day before I started my PB game.
Save file attached if it helps.

The save definitely helped. I think I've finally tracked down the issue, and I'll be fixing it next patch.
On that note, 3.1.3 will be released tomorrow (Saturday).

I like what I've seen so far in PB. However I find that the only plots available are either kill a character or revoke a title, which is quite a short list compared to CK2+'s array of plots (heresy, kidnap, embezzle, etc.)

Will the number of plots be expanded in PB in the future?

Some more plots would definitely be nice to have. The main issue is coming up with good objectives and properly balancing them.
If people have any suggestions for plots/objectives I'd be happy to code a few, perhaps even in time for the patch tomorrow.

 

[Sqwerlpunk]

It does that because it has no fixed location on the map. If you own any other title, its capital is treated as the family palace location. If you're Patrician without holdings, like the Geatish Gildehusen in 1066, it jumps to your liege's location in Gotland.
The moment you manage to get a city or county holding, it jumps to there if you click your family palace. That does not mean your family dismantled the palace and moved it brick by brick to another place

Well, I'll cede my uneducated guess to your much more thorough examination, haha.

And if that's the case, I'm really sad I can't move my capitol now. Maybe some save-game editing is in order.

Some more plots would definitely be nice to have. The main issue is coming up with good objectives and properly balancing them.
If people have any suggestions for plots/objectives I'd be happy to code a few, perhaps even in time for the patch tomorrow.

Is there a way to code for a count to plot to create his de jure ducal title?

It's a bit easy, currently, to keep all of your vassals as counts, and refusing to create Ducal titles, excepting 1-2 province duchies. This is a large part of why I almost always run Elective in Feudal games... well, combined with the very easy to run plot to revoke any count who gets more than 1 province. Easy-mode succession + relations bonus? Yes please. At least if you're forced to run a lot of dukes it gives you a trade-off for creating the family only Elective model (all Archbishops will cut into my troop/income numbers quite a bit).

 

[Meneth]

@Sqwerlpunk: Can't actually target an uncreated title to my knowledge. Might be possible to do it anyway though, but I can't quite see how right this moment.

 

[jordarkelf]

@Sqwerlpunk: Can't actually target an uncreated title to my knowledge. Might be possible to do it anyway though, but I can't quite see how right this moment.

In my testing, I found you can only target an uncreated title by tag name (d_whatever), not by checking primary_title = { is_vassal_or_below = ROOT } or something nice like that. So while you could write such a plot I think you'd need to include every single duchy tag from landed_titles in there and it'd be a major slowdown of the game to check.

 

[Meneth]

In my testing, I found you can only target an uncreated title by tag name (d_whatever), not by checking primary_title = { is_vassal_or_below = ROOT } or something nice like that. So while you could write such a plot I think you'd need to include every single duchy tag from landed_titles in there and it'd be a major slowdown of the game to check.

You can probably target it via dejure_liege_title

 

[cybrxkhan]

I will not be adding any more republics to my game, the default ones plus Aden and Iceland are enough for me. Aden I added mostly as a lark, and Iceland actually makes sense since there was no trade there from the Hansa. I've actually modded the Hansa events in my game so the Hansa CANNOT form if Gotland still exists.
Adding too many republics takes away the uniqueness of their gameplay for me. I want to see major trading empires like the merchant leagues actually had, and not a splintered map of random seazones held by a republic here and there, which is what adding too many will lead to. At least Aden and Iceland are in historically empty areas.

But to each his own.

I don't really mind them losing their uniqueness as long as each of the other Republics have their own unique starting situations (Hormuz, which I'm working on, will be a riot of patrician familes of different cultures and religions), but admittedly you do bring up a good point. Personally, I take a more liberal interpretation of the merchant republics in the game and have expanded that to include powerful trading cities (such as Hormuz or Hamburg), but indeed having too many Republics at some point will cause another balance issue, where they'll start gobbling up the map. However, I hope (though haven't really tested) that if there's a decent number of Republics, they'll fight each other rather than...erm... Repubiblob (Republics don't blob in the traditional sense), but at some point they'll overwhelm everybody, definitely. But frankly it would be cool if the game could have merchant leagues - perhaps if, say, somehow merchant republics have an agreement not to backstab each other or something.

As to adding more in the Mediterranean itself, I do believe it is possible to have republics start with less than 5 tradeposts? In that case it'd be easy enough to add weak republics that will eventually be absorbed into Venice, Genoa, or Pisa.

You can easily do that as the tradeposts are done through province history. The only problem (I think?) is that the families without tradeposts won't be editable in ruler designer, but that's a vanilla bug. It's what I plan to do for a good number with the Republics I'm adding anyways.

 

[jordarkelf]

The only problem (I think?) is that the families without tradeposts won't be editable in ruler designer, but that's a vanilla bug. It's what I plan to do for a good number with the Republics I'm adding anyways.

It's an issue with Patricians who don't also hold a barony or higher title.
What happens is that the ruler designer changes the dynasty ID, so it no longer matches that used by the patrician file. This means the character is landless, and you lose the game. Tradeposts won't help, they must get actual holdings.
This is also the reason you lose all scripted improvements to the family palace if you use the RD.

It's perfectly feasable to create "empty" republics existing of just the Doge in history files, the game will autogenerate the other four patrician families and then the AI will begin expanding once it has money. This is what happens when republics are created during gameplay, or with Ancona in later starts.
That's how I tested my Aden republic at first, I added the other patricians and holdings only once I was sure it was working.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Well historically there was major trade empires in two places: The Baltic and the Mediterranean.
Something needs to be in western Europe to stop the Baltic and Mediterranean republics from easily expanding there, which would essentially be the point of adding more republics.
As to adding more in the Mediterranean itself, I do believe it is possible to have republics start with less than 5 tradeposts? In that case it'd be easy enough to add weak republics that will eventually be absorbed into Venice, Genoa, or Pisa.

I'll still state my case for Ragusa. Seriously. It should exist.

Anyways, there isn't some way to seriously hamper trade post growth and base it on tech levels, is there? I feel like that would keep the republics inside the Med for a bit, and keep Visby east of the Kattegat. Then, events could establish local hansa (like, per city) and maybe require that their posts only be built in the northern portion of Europe? Maybe do an alliance or make a requirement for a title of the Hanseatic League after the 1350's?

I could imagine a whole series of events, like English burghers demanding revocation of trading rights, or the establishment of Baltic piracy republics.

 

[Drakken]

Some more plots would definitely be nice to have. The main issue is coming up with good objectives and properly balancing them.
If people have any suggestions for plots/objectives I'd be happy to code a few, perhaps even in time for the patch tomorrow.

I propose at first those already present in CK2+ (kidnap, forge proofs of treason, discredit councillor/vassal, embezzle money, accuse of heresy, forge claim on county/duchy).

I'm sure you can obtain Wiz's permission for these plots without problem.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Some more plots would definitely be nice to have. The main issue is coming up with good objectives and properly balancing them.
If people have any suggestions for plots/objectives I'd be happy to code a few, perhaps even in time for the patch tomorrow.

There's also the seduce liege plot from Additional Objectives.

 

[yezhanquan]

There's also the seduce liege plot from Additional Objectives.

By all that is holy, is that what I think it is?

Female vassal (naked in bed) : My liege, about that title....
Liege (also naked in bed) : Don't worry, my love. It's yours, as soon as I get dressed and hold court.

 

[ImperatorLJ]

I'd love to see the family estate mechanic implemented for all dynasties, or something similar. It makes historical sense for a feudal lord family to have assets beyond just the land they rule.

Granted, I don't know if this is even possible. Maybe a simplified system such as through a decision?

 

[ryushi]

was wondering if it would be possible to add "Designated Heir" from republics for everyone else? and work it so you play as the heir but the normal rules on succession is kept. just for example, if your a king with gravekind succession and have to 2 sons, the you could make the youngest your "designated heir" but the oldest would still become king and gain most of your holding like normal, but you would instead be played as the youngest.

i've been sort of doing this by using commands but the prestige and history glitches.

 

[cybrxkhan]

By all that is holy, is that what I think it is?

Female vassal (naked in bed) : My liege, about that title....
Liege (also naked in bed) : Don't worry, my love. It's yours, as soon as I get dressed and hold court.

Well, actually, now that I recall, it was seduce [X person] in general (so seduce a courtier, wife, liege, vassal, whatever).

 

[Vox Imperatoris]

I just want to say that I am not a big fan of "Greek Empire", at all.

I much prefer "Rhomanía", or the other alternatives.

However, the idea to have the two names switch out depending on whether you are playing them or not is pretty cool. I like it. I still think it sounds better to call them the Byzantine Empire, but I can accept that Greek Empire is more historical for foreigners to call them.

The choice someone mentioned to have an event at the beginning of the game on what to call them is also not bad, although I can see how it would get out of hand if you did it for more empires.

 

[Portal]

Seconding Rhomaion / Rhomania.

 

[joos]

Two things:

1) I am pretty sure the mod 'Family Relations' is compatible with Project Balance. I didn't see it in the list of compatible mods on the first page, so thought I should tell you this.

2) And on to the bug. I am not sure if this is mod bug or if it is a vanilla bug, but I decided to post it here first and see if it is a mod bug

The setting: I am running 1.09 with Project Balance and Family Relations. No Republic/SoI/Rome DLC.
The bug:

I am playing as the duke of Norfolk and he is also the Chancellor of England. The King of England has assigned him to fabricate claims in Anjou.

When I throw a Feast or a Grand Hunt, the message box says, "I have decided to organize the event in Anjou". Anjou! He is just there to fabricate claims for his liege and he decides to organize a grand hunt there?! Naturally, the program is looking for the character's current location which seems kinda silly. Is this a mod-induced bug or should I post it in the main bugs forum?