Project Balance

[Meneth]

The German Realm does not exist, no.

Yeah, you might be right about Russia, though foreign monarchs probably shouldn't get emperor-tier titles.

 

[CzokletMuss]

What a shame, I miss good ol' Byzantine Empire
Would you consider changing this title to Basileia Rhōmaiōn at least? Rhomania sounds bizzare and almost like modern state of Romania, which name's originate from Byz. However this is kinda awkward.

 

[G.Strategos]

What a shame, I miss good ol' Byzantine Empire
Would you consider changing this title to Basileia Rhōmaiōn at least? Rhomania sounds bizzare and almost like modern state of Romania, which name's originate from Byz. However this is kinda awkward.

Basileia Rhōmaiōn would be nice indeed...

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I really do hate decisions like this. Just use Roman or Byzantine Empire; please don't start localizing kingdom/empire names like that.

 

[Vovolov]

I'm not sure if this has been noted or not, but as a merchant republic you can't seize cities in muslim land. This probably has something to do with the way you set up holy wars.

 

[G.Strategos]

I really do hate decisions like this. Just use Roman or Byzantine Empire; please don't start localizing kingdom/empire names like that.

But why??? flavor is good...even in coffee....
EDIT:I really want to know why...

 

[Fishman786]

I really do hate decisions like this. Just use Roman or Byzantine Empire; please don't start localizing kingdom/empire names like that.

+1.

 

[Ofaloaf]

I really do hate decisions like this. Just use Roman or Byzantine Empire; please don't start localizing kingdom/empire names like that.

As someone who's just started playing this, I agree that localizing all the names would be more confusing than flavorful. I'm familiar with Spain, I know that it's nowadays a country on the Iberian Peninsula. España? I can't even type that n-with-a-squiggle on my keyboard. Likewise, I know what Bohemia is, but I have no idea what the Czech name for Bohemia even is. Localizing the names makes them kind of alien; I can indentify English terms well enough, but don't even know the local names for many of these places.

 

[G.Strategos]

As someone who's just started playing this, I agree that localizing all the names would be more confusing than flavorful. I'm familiar with Spain, I know that it's nowadays a country on the Iberian Peninsula. España? I can't even type that n-with-a-squiggle on my keyboard. Likewise, I know what Bohemia is, but I have no idea what the Czech name for Bohemia even is. Localizing the names makes them kind of alien; I can indentify English terms well enough, but don't even know the local names for many of these places.

So this will be a great way to learn more...what's the difficulty??? you will see the area on the map...

 

[Dekent]

So this will be a great way to learn more...what's the difficulty??? you will see the area on the map...

It's also mod creep, the name of this mod is still 'project balance', and I think that's what most of us want, a balanced vanilla, not another historical names mod.

 

[G.Strategos]

It's also mod creep, the name of this mod is still 'project balance', and I think that's what most of us want, a balanced vanilla, not another historical names mod.

Historical flavor is mod creep??? weird to say that for a Historical strategy game don't you think??? Also it's called P.Balance not vanilla Balance...and I was under the impression people here would care to know about history a bit...
anyway....not a real issue for me and Meneth has the final word about it...

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

So this will be a great way to learn more...what's the difficulty??? you will see the area on the map...

1: It's not something that can be 'turned off' for everyone without extensive modding.

2: People will want a base version, so Meneth will have to pick sides or make two versions. Extra work is not good with his already burdened schedule and propensity for fast updates.

3: Many names are in languages that are no longer in existence in the present form. Since the goal is period-appropriate, that seems odd if only some are capable of being done.

4: Is anyone really going to make cross-translated names for every culture? If just vanilla cultures have only one cross-localization apiece, that's 3,364 separate names. Multiply that by the number of titles you're naming.

5: English as a lingua franca makes an English version capable of broader appeal, and the least amount of conflict. It's not like a person can't individually name the title they want with a .csv file in ten minutes if they HAVE to have it.

EDIT:

Historical flavor is mod creep??? weird to say that for a Historical strategy game don't you think??? Also it's called P.Balance not vanilla Balance...and I was under the impression people here would care to know about history a bit...
anyway....not a real issue for me and Meneth has the final word about it...

'Historical flavor' is perhaps the wrong for it, and it is mod creep. There are already mods that localize names as a stand-alone, and they are easy for an end-user to modify to taste. As to the "Project vs. Vanilla Balance" claim, I like PB because it is very vanilla, and doesn't include a lot of fluff like CK2+ or TPatT. I play like a macro-political simulator, and could care less about minutiae.

And just because the Byzantines are shown in-game with a native spelling doesn't diminish or make people "learn less" about history. The history stays the same no matter who calls it by what name. But it stands a higher chance of confusing players who are not familiar. Us hardcore history buffs and players are little more capable of digging between the lines to learn this stuff. The average player probably isn't. Compare the general forum to the mod forum for quality comparison, or dig through the average comment thread at the askhistorians subreddit and you'll see what I mean.

 

[James The 1st]

I really do hate decisions like this. Just use Roman or Byzantine Empire; please don't start localizing kingdom/empire names like that.

I agree

 

[G.Strategos]

1: It's not something that can be 'turned off' for everyone without extensive modding.

2: People will want a base version, so Meneth will have to pick sides or make two versions. Extra work is not good with his already burdened schedule and propensity for fast updates.

3: Many names are in languages that are no longer in existence in the present form. Since the goal is period-appropriate, that seems odd if only some are capable of being done.

4: Is anyone really going to make cross-translated names for every culture? If just vanilla cultures have only one cross-localization apiece, that's 3,364 separate names. Multiply that by the number of titles you're naming.


5: English as a lingua franca makes an English version capable of broader appeal, and the least amount of conflict. It's not like a person can't individually name the title they want with a .csv file in ten minutes if they HAVE to have it.

Thanks for the extensive post Crackd...
But I just said my opinion about a little flavor....and Meneth had the idea of changing Byzie's name not me...I just supported his choice...
Anyway we cant all share the same opinion can we??? I will leave it to Meneth and not discuss it more...
see you in your thread buddy...

EDIT: seems like no one shares my opinion,I love you all though, even Sleight...

EDIT 2: Crackd. I don't like to discuss about other mods in the wrong thread also I'm always respectful to others and their opinions...so I will respect yours...although you wrote almost a complete novel there...

Cheers...

 

[cybrxkhan]

I'm also not in favor of having Rhomania, if only because it'll open a can of worms.

I was having the same debate when I was adding in localized titles for VIET, and decided only to add funky new words if 1) they were relatively recognizable to an English audience (for instance "Theme" for Byzantine Duchy would be relatively recognizable to anyone with a basic knowledge of Byzantine history); 2) it wasn't exactly equivalent to the Franco-Imperial-European feudal structure (so like the Byzantine noble titles), otherwise we'd have "Roi" and "Roy" in Spanish and French when "King" would just do fine.

Just my two cents, of course.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

EDIT 2: Crackd. I don't like to discuss about other mods in the wrong thread also I'm always respectful to others and their opinions...so I will respect yours...although you wrote almost a complete novel there...

Fair enough. I almost never say anything in a small amount of words. The concept is essentially alien to me.

That being said, I really like PB. I feel invested in it from having helped Meneth with a couple of things, and its design goal being what I have in mind when I toyed around with the concept of balancing the game, but keeping it functionally vanilla in most aspects.

I'm also not in favor of having Rhomania, if only because it'll open a can of worms.

I was having the same debate when I was adding in localized titles for VIET, and decided only to add funky new words if 1) they were relatively recognizable to an English audience (for instance "Theme" for Byzantine Duchy would be relatively recognizable to anyone with a basic knowledge of Byzantine history); 2) it wasn't exactly equivalent to the Franco-Imperial-European feudal structure (so like the Byzantine noble titles), otherwise we'd have "Roi" and "Roy" in Spanish and French when "King" would just do fine.

Just my two cents, of course.

Agreed. I can understand the renaming scheme for Anatolia, maybe, because the complete replacement of Greeks and Armenians with Turks led to a very visible change in the peninsula. That scenario seems like what this feature was made for.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

It's also mod creep, the name of this mod is still 'project balance', and I think that's what most of us want, a balanced vanilla, not another historical names mod.

Sir, you speak the truth of a thousand silver-tongued angels.

 

[G.Strategos]

Fair enough. I almost never say anything in a small amount of words. The concept is essentially alien to me.

That being said, I really like PB. I feel invested in it from having helped Meneth with a couple of things, and its design goal being what I have in mind when I toyed around with the concept of balancing the game, but keeping it functionally vanilla in most aspects.

Fair enough for me also...

Sir, you speak the truth of a thousand silver-tongued angels.

Very nice...like your explanation why you wouldn't prefer that kind of additions...

 

[cybrxkhan]

To add to my point, basically it gets confusing very quickly when you see something like this:

"Aoijfdsoijfsdf Bobbicus of the Aoijsifsfj of IUhxivxvjsdf has joined the faction to put Pijofoisjf Kwfoijsof of the Moaoijfoadfj of Avnosufosf on the throne."

When

"Jarl Balgruff of the Jarldom of Transylvania has joined the faction to put Doux Tiberius of the Theme of Aswan on the throne."

would do.

EDIT:

My suggestion would be to have Basileia Romanion (however that's spelled). It isn't that recognizable for a general audience but it is still recognizable enough for those with a real basic knowledge of Byzantine history. Better yet, "Eastern Roman Empire" (but as Meneth said that would be sortr of weird).

 

[G.Strategos]

To add to my point, basically it gets confusing very quickly when you see something like this:

"Aoijfdsoijfsdf Bobbicus of the Aoijsifsfj of IUhxivxvjsdf has joined the faction to put Pijofoisjf Kwfoijsof of the Moaoijfoadfj of Avnosufosf on the throne."

When

"Jarl Balgruff of the Jarldom of Transylvania has joined the faction to put Doux Tiberius of the Theme of Aswan on the throne."

would do.

EDIT:

My suggestion would be to have Basileia Romanion (however that's spelled). It isn't that recognizable for a general audience but it is still recognizable enough for those with a real basic knowledge of Byzantine history. Better yet, "Eastern Roman Empire" (but as Meneth said that would be sortr of weird).

I agree...