Project Balance

[shadow121292]

With the Byzantine Empire now being called Rhomania will other states receive similar treatments to their countries like Deutschland for Germans, Italia and Sicilia for Italians, Cechy for Bohemians, etc?

I also noticed that the events to begin the English Melting Pot are very slow. So slow that in fact some provinces in England begin turning Norman before the King or any province turns English. Now the one time I saw it eventually turn English I noticed that the only provinces that converted were the Anglo-Saxon ones perhaps there should be an upping for norman provinces to convert.(That would complicate things if England still has lands in Normandy but in a lot of ways if England was able to historically control these lands longer then they did historically the population would have likely formed a type of English.)

Also final thought dunno if someone has brought this up is perhaps Latin culture or at least Sicilian/Italians could be allowed to enact the Roman Empire decision? At least the Italians/Sicilians if successfully unified would have attempted to recreated the Empire their ancestors made famous. If not I'll just destroy Rhomania and make the Latin Empire as a nice second best haha.

 

[Meneth]

The northern cities should be in the Hansa a little earlier than 1350, I think, but whatever works, really, since from what I've heard the Hansa get curbstomped by Gotland the moment they appear. Of course this will need quite a lot of testing anyways.

That reminds me, you forgot to add in new dynasties for the North and South Germans, resulting in a small chance of new German dynasties getting the dynasty name "Smith".

So yeah, it wouldn't be a bad idea.

The idea is that Gotland, Hamburg, and Bremen would simply be merged into one trading house. Not entirely sure if that's actually doable though, unless it is possible for a merchant republic to have more than 5 families.

I'm wondering what Project Balance's response to the change in marriage prestige is in 1.09? I notice as a Duke that I lose some prestige when I marry just about anyone, even if I'm marrying my heir to another heir. Is it working as intended?

I haven't looked much into it so far, but I don't believe PB should have any effect on it currently?

With the Byzantine Empire now being called Rhomania will other states receive similar treatments to their countries like Deutschland for Germans, Italia and Sicilia for Italians, Cechy for Bohemians, etc?

As long as the names are recognizable I don't see any issue with implementing more.

I also noticed that the events to begin the English Melting Pot are very slow. So slow that in fact some provinces in England begin turning Norman before the King or any province turns English. Now the one time I saw it eventually turn English I noticed that the only provinces that converted were the Anglo-Saxon ones perhaps there should be an upping for norman provinces to convert.(That would complicate things if England still has lands in Normandy but in a lot of ways if England was able to historically control these lands longer then they did historically the population would have likely formed a type of English.)

I'll probably speed the events up some. Perhaps allow them to fire before 1100 too. 1080, perhaps?

Also final thought dunno if someone has brought this up is perhaps Latin culture or at least Sicilian/Italians could be allowed to enact the Roman Empire decision? At least the Italians/Sicilians if successfully unified would have attempted to recreated the Empire their ancestors made famous. If not I'll just destroy Rhomania and make the Latin Empire as a nice second best haha.

The restoration and schism decisions don't have any culture restrictions.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

As long as the names are recognizable I don't see any issue with implementing more.

Can this be in its own .csv file or something? I can see a lot of conflicts when implementing custom cultures, and to be quite honest, I would literally have to embark upon a personal project to convert all names, in all cultures, and cross-reference, just because I'm so anal about it. Then, three years down the road, when my wife has left me, but I have an amazing culturally-cross-referenced name list and an addiction to painkillers, I can finally stop. I apologize for the hyperbole, but it's the same reason I stopped doing the title changes for the Cumans.

I'll probably speed the events up some. Perhaps allow them to fire before 1100 too. 1080, perhaps?

Why would you speed them up? To be fair, the events should slow down as long as England holds Normandy. I would honestly make losing it a requirement for the events to fire in the first place. It was the separation from easy access to Aquitaine via overland route through Normandy that led to the decrease in direct Norman influence as it was present during the 11-12th Centuries. After the separation, there's a stronger case for cultural syncretism.

 

[jordarkelf]

Can this be in its own .csv file or something? I can see a lot of conflicts when implementing custom cultures, and to be quite honest, I would literally have to embark upon a personal project to convert all names, in all cultures, and cross-reference, just because I'm so anal about it. Then, three years down the road, when my wife has left me, but I have an amazing culturally-cross-referenced name list and an addiction to painkillers, I can finally stop. I apologize for the hyperbole, but it's the same reason I stopped doing the title changes for the Cumans.

If only it was in localisation! It must be done in landed_titles for it to work. I also wish they had done PROV57_danish;Jorvik or c_york_danish;Jorvik instead but that's not what was implemented.

 

[Meneth]

Can this be in its own .csv file or something? I can see a lot of conflicts when implementing custom cultures, and to be quite honest, I would literally have to embark upon a personal project to convert all names, in all cultures, and cross-reference, just because I'm so anal about it. Then, three years down the road, when my wife has left me, but I have an amazing culturally-cross-referenced name list and an addiction to painkillers, I can finally stop. I apologize for the hyperbole, but it's the same reason I stopped doing the title changes for the Cumans.

As darkelf says, it sadly isn't actually done in localisation. Since Paradox are silly, they decided it'd be best to do it in landed_titles instead.
Because obviously, localisation is the wrong place to do localisation.

Why would you speed them up? To be fair, the events should slow down as long as England holds Normandy. I would honestly make losing it a requirement for the events to fire in the first place. It was the separation from easy access to Aquitaine via overland route through Normandy that led to the decrease in direct Norman influence as it was present during the 11-12th Centuries. After the separation, there's a stronger case for cultural syncretism.

Well, the current issue is that England often ends up Norman rather than English, which isn't that historical.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

As darkelf says, it sadly isn't actually done in localisation. Since Paradox are silly, they decided it'd be best to do it in landed_titles instead.
Because obviously, localisation is the wrong place to do localisation.

Probably an oversight. Ah well.

Well, the current issue is that England often ends up Norman rather than English, which isn't that historical.

It isn't historical if England loses Normandy, which it did. Unless you're considering "English" to be flexible and apply on a case-by-case basis to each game as the fusion of Norman legal and linguistic infusion into the Isles predominant culture...

The case I'm trying to make is that, with close, essentially next-door-access to Norman Frankish lands, the aristocracy shouldn't be converted to "English" unless your interpretation of English is adaptable. There's a pretty strong case for further Normanization into a more French model of government if the influence from the Norman homelands is allowed intact. A whole segment of English history is essentially hinged around trying to install themselves as rulers of French lands.

OTL England lost Normandy in 1204, and it wasn't until 1258 that the first documents from the nobility in English were issued (It was also issued in Latin and French). It took until 1362 before the first English-speaking Parliament session opened. That's a 158 year separation from the loss of Normandy before the ruling class started using English as their primary language. You can argue it was inevitable, but it certainly wasn't fast.

My two cents.

 

[Meneth]

Perhaps the Normans shouldn't convert to English unless they lose Normandy, but surely the Saxons should? Or does them becoming Norman actually make historical sense?
I'll defer to whatever makes the most historical sense.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Perhaps the Normans shouldn't convert to English unless they lose Normandy, but surely the Saxons should? Or does them becoming Norman actually make historical sense?
I'll defer to whatever makes the most historical sense.

I suppose it depends on your interpretation of what "English" is. Is English an inevitable description of the inhabitants of England? Because English as represented by the game is a combination of Norman French infusion - linguistically, legally, and culturally - into an Anglo-Saxon population. Without that infusion, does Saxon stay Saxon? Or does English become a demonym for an inhabitant of what we today call England? If you're using English demonymically, why not make Saxon into English in the first place?

My suggestion would be to find out what you mean when you say English, and go from there. To be fair, in order to properly simulate it, the player should replace almost every single ruling noble with a Norman of some kind, and change the legal culture from the old Saxon laws to the Norman system before it is even considered. By the end of his reign, William I had practically replaced the entire set of native magnates in both secular and ecclesiastical positions with what were, essentially, foreigners. Now the local moots and consultation with the Witan still happened, but with these Norman magnates who had greatly expanded personal jurisdiction, and effectively pretended to be an adaptation to an existing system instead of a replacement to an old one.

However, I have now idea how to properly even consider programming or coding that, and it seems to be a little much. Now, if you could tie the culture-change events into something checking for the percentage of Norman ownership of all the various tiers of titles, and selection of certain legal rules, that would be best.

 

[shadow121292]

As long as the names are recognizable I don't see any issue with implementing more.

If you 'd like with it I'd be willing to do a few, Mainly Italian/Roman as its an area of expertise I have.

The restoration and schism decisions don't have any culture restrictions.

Ah I thought you had to be Orthodox or own the Byzantine Empire to do it.

Perhaps the Normans shouldn't convert to English unless they lose Normandy, but surely the Saxons should? Or does them becoming Norman actually make historical sense?
I'll defer to whatever makes the most historical sense.

I suppose it depends on your interpretation of what "English" is. Is English an inevitable description of the inhabitants of England? Because English as represented by the game is a combination of Norman French infusion - linguistically, legally, and culturally - into an Anglo-Saxon population. Without that infusion, does Saxon stay Saxon? Or does English become a demonym for an inhabitant of what we today call England? If you're using English demonymically, why not make Saxon into English in the first place?

My suggestion would be to find out what you mean when you say English, and go from there. To be fair, in order to properly simulate it, the player should replace almost every single ruling noble with a Norman of some kind, and change the legal culture from the old Saxon laws to the Norman system before it is even considered. By the end of his reign, William I had practically replaced the entire set of native magnates in both secular and ecclesiastical positions with what were, essentially, foreigners. Now the local moots and consultation with the Witan still happened, but with these Norman magnates who had greatly expanded personal jurisdiction, and effectively pretended to be an adaptation to an existing system instead of a replacement to an old one.

However, I have now idea how to properly even consider programming or coding that, and it seems to be a little much. Now, if you could tie the culture-change events into something checking for the percentage of Norman ownership of all the various tiers of titles, and selection of certain legal rules, that would be best.

Perhaps make it a two stage conversion? When England controls Normandy and the King of England is Norman Anglo-Saxons will convert to Norman culture. This allows for England in the case of conquering France to convert Frankish to Norman as well creating that later Plantagenet idea(Henry IV, V, VI) of a unified two realms. If the King is norman but they do not own Normandy or if possible any land on France they could begin the process from Norman to English.

 

[VorpalNeko]

BUG (or intended?): Military Organization tech is missing, replaced with old Infrastructure tech.
Fixed straightforwardly by replacing TECH_CASTLES block in technology.txt with the TECH_RECRUITMENT block from the vanilla game.

ETA: On the other hand, I probably should read the OP more carefully, since it implies this was intentional. Nevermind, sorry.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Perhaps make it a two stage conversion? When England controls Normandy and the King of England is Norman Anglo-Saxons will convert to Norman culture. This allows for England in the case of conquering France to convert Frankish to Norman as well creating that later Plantagenet idea(Henry IV, V, VI) of a unified two realms. If the King is norman but they do not own Normandy or if possible any land on France they could begin the process from Norman to English.

This would probably be best, at least in my eyes. The Saxon system of government was very prone to decentralization. I feel events simulating the replacement of the local aristocracy (through rebellions, shire- and hundred-moots, demands for reinstituting full-scale Witan councils, establishing Magnate and Commune Councils, and pro-Norman protection legislation) should be available. In the long-run, William, if victorious, should try to replace every tier of government with a Norman, even by the ai.

 

[September]

• The Byzantine Empire is now called Rhomanía if ruled by Greeks

As long as the names are recognizable I don't see any issue with implementing more.

I'm not sure how recognizable Rhomanía is. When it comes to the bigger standard titles, I really think English names are preferable. How unhistoric is the Eastern Roman Empire?

 

[Bertouch]

Is the latest version backward-compatible to the 1.08 patch?

 

[James The 1st]

Is the latest version backward-compatible to the 1.08 patch?

Probably not.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Is the latest version backward-compatible to the 1.08 patch?

Actually I think it *might* be but the chance of weird @#$% happening is high enough I wouldn't advise it - although you can try and see what happens. *shrugs*

 

[Bertouch]

Actually I think it *might* be but the chance of weird @#$% happening is high enough I wouldn't advise it - although you can try and see what happens. *shrugs*

Was mostly curious. I don't like a couple of changes in 1.09, but I can always mod them out, and I'd rather continue using PB and your VIET.

 

[Meneth]

This would probably be best, at least in my eyes. The Saxon system of government was very prone to decentralization. I feel events simulating the replacement of the local aristocracy (through rebellions, shire- and hundred-moots, demands for reinstituting full-scale Witan councils, establishing Magnate and Commune Councils, and pro-Norman protection legislation) should be available. In the long-run, William, if victorious, should try to replace every tier of government with a Norman, even by the ai.

Sounds like there should actually be quite a few more events in that area, then. However, I'm not really that great at flavor events

I'm not sure how recognizable Rhomanía is. When it comes to the bigger standard titles, I really think English names are preferable. How unhistoric is the Eastern Roman Empire?

Eastern Roman Empire doesn't make sense after the fall of the west.
Rhomania might not be that recognizable, but since one can hardly miss the Byzzies, one'll be used to it quite quickly. If we on the other hand change the name of say, Russia to Россия, then that's a lot less recognizable.

Was mostly curious. I don't like a couple of changes in 1.09, but I can always mod them out, and I'd rather continue using PB and your VIET.

It might work with 1.08, or it might crash horribly. I honestly have no idea.

 

[billydilly]

Hi, I keep getting a CTD when I start the mod, was there something about PB not working with some of the DLC's? Dynasty flags or something like that?

 

[Meneth]

Hi, I keep getting a CTD when I start the mod, was there something about PB not working with some of the DLC's? Dynasty flags or something like that?

PB should work fine with the DLC. Make sure you've got the latest version of PB and CKII.

 

[September]

Eastern Roman Empire doesn't make sense after the fall of the west.
Rhomania might not be that recognizable, but since one can hardly miss the Byzzies, one'll be used to it quite quickly.

My line of reasoning was as far as I understand it, they referred to themselves as Basileia Rhōmaiōn which would be the Roman Empire. However, since the HRE exist it would be very strange to have the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire (also, it kind of undermines the LoR event*). So, referring to it as the Eastern Roman Empire seemed like a good compromise. I suppose there aren't any perfect solutions here.

*By the way, is the title of the German Realm createable? I remember seeing it as an option when I played HRE. What if HRE is uncreateable when the Roman Empire exists and the German Realm is uncreatable when the Byzantine Empire exists? Also, is createable a word?

Россия, then that's a lot less recognizable.

Very true. Speaking of Russia, I ran a PB game there when Russian flavor packs were sold. While I think it works quite well on other places, I don't think the empire of Russia should use use king-level titles, especially not for the Russian culture. It was very strange to not see the title Tsar until I took Byzantium as well.