Project Balance

[Meneth]

Oh and here's a screenshot of all the new decision icons:

 

[Meneth]

That is a pretty hefty nerf to the HRE, isn't it? Pretty borders worth that?

Essentially, an independence revolt strong enough to succeed will include almost all non-dejure vassals. The last few tend to be enclaves caused by those vassals for whatever reason not joining the faction. I've also often seen a snake of vassals going into northern Italy.
So it's not really much of a nerf.

 

[Meneth]

Personally I would give vassals in the kingdoms of Burgundy (Arelat) and Italy (kingdom of the Lombards) an intermediary position, since those two kingdoms historically were a part of the (HR) Empire. IMHO really non de jure would be in the middle east of north Africa, however bordering regions a lot less or even not (so much), like Pomerania, Silesia etc.

Still, to be fair, shouldn't you make that apply to all Empires?

It's not as if there's really any other empires for it to apply to. The ERE has essentially no independence revolts, and the only other empire beyond that is Persia, which falls apart on its own anyway through other mechanics.

 

[Meneth]

The reason why I mentioned the kingdoms of Italy and Burgundy was that these kingdoms historically were, what would be called in game de jure HRE, but in game these are not.

I'm not asking for applying this to other empires, although in other cases having non de jure vassals join would make sense.

If 90% of Italy breaks free though, the remaining 10% really shouldn't be staying.

 

[Meneth]

I think, as you may have noticed, that we disagree here. The kingdoms of Burgundy and Italy were kingdoms of the HRE and if parts should be lost then IMHO that should proceed gradually and not instantly. Furthermore the HRE controlling the in game de jure HRE and the kingdoms of Italy and Burgundy (there also were some changes in the Polish/Baltic border area) are not ugly borders since the HRE did control that area historically for most of the game.

The borders get ugly when an independence revolt succeeds and the HRE holds onto a snake of Italian provinces, or a few Italian enclaves. If they lost control over 90% of Italy there's little chance they'd be able to control an enclave in the middle of Italy, an exclave by Genoa/Pisa, or a strange snake into Italian lands.

 

[Meneth]

Still I'm not in agreement here, the HRE apart from all the grand universalistic claims, had legitimate reasons to claim the kingdoms of Italy and Burgundy and only stopped doing so because the empire was dissolved in 1806.

Also having exclaves and enclaves is quite medieval though I can give you a present day example, have you ever heard of Baarle? Or rather Dutch Baarle-Nassau (the lands historically held by the lord/baron of Breda) and Belgium Baarle-Hertog (the lands historically held by the duke of Brabant), the former is a municipality in North Brabant and the latter in Antwerp (province).

Baarle has the slight advantage of not having the Alps in the way.

 

[Meneth]

Btw. regarding update - did you have a chance to look into those troops I've mentioned earlier Meneth?

Also - I am pretty sure it ain't WAD, but playing in the baltics I am able to hire ghanan band - you know, the one from west africa.

Haven't had time to look into it yet, no.
Fix for Ghanan Band has now been committed.

Having a problem here while playing PB+VIET as Byzantine Empire. I just can't get a claim on Venice. It's not that the Chancellor is there but the event doesn't pop up, i can't put a chancellor in the province (I can put on in all the provinces that border the same seazone and i own all of the besides two. This gets even worse because i need Venice to form the Roman Empire; Venice, Genoa and Tunis are the only missing requirements right now.

Use Imperial Reconquest.

Whoo, update. Will fire it up tomorrow.

I've noticed that while my Arabic cultural retinues have a bonus, the cultural buildings do not have any light cavalry bonuses listed for levies, nor is anything but the technology bonus listed when hovering over the troop type in a raised levy.

I looked at a couple of other cultures' buildings, and noticed that some of them had bonuses as normal and at least one other (Greek cataphracts, I believe) did not provide bonuses.

Wanted to check with you in case this was by design or if I borked something somehow.

I'll have to look into it.

Changes seem really good. This one might be a tad problematic - "Characters now get a bit of prestige upon becoming a councilor" - but then again, there's no real bonus to powergaming this (except making all your family members counsilor once and firing them immediately).

Just for the record: VIET (and all the other compatible mods) is compatible with PB+SMH too, right?

It's a max of 200 prestige, so it shouldn't cause any issues.
VIET Events works with PB+SWMH.

Just 'finished' a play-through in Western Africa. Was using an earlier beta-build+swmh+VIET's portraits. Sharing some observations:

-Ultimogeniture was still available to pagans
-AI lost some defensive wars because instead of defending, he tried to march his armies to my capital and lost almost all his troops to attrition. (Probably an issue PB can't fix)
-At one point (Late in the game) I've decided to invade Sicily. I was gathering my army (it took a while), in the meantime the Sicilians and their allies had a 60+doomstack waiting for me. Unfortunately by the time I -did- land the doomstack got reduced a lot due to attrition. Again, probably not something PB can fix.
-Those cultures in the sahara sometimes have european building-graphics
-HRE is oddly stable. They lost Italy as advertised, but then incorporated Hungary, England and Sweden as whole kingdoms. They lost England entirely, lost Hungary for a few years (but reclaimed it)
-Ilkhanate was....outrageously stable. They claimed the steppes, persian empire, arabia and Byzantine Empire and are holding this all together still. Despite having several king-tier vassals of wrong culture and religion.
-Any chance Ilkhanage can be prevented from warring for the kingdom of the Kipchaks so that it goes into persia? And Golden Horde should not war for Khiva. I pity the Horde, they got stomped by Ilkhans and are now limited to the Kingdom of Perm, doing nothing.

[May be increase the chance of factions declaring war if liege is in an offensive war, reducing it if he is at peace? Indep-faction should also declare war in case of a defensive war, since they clearly don't care. I had a good deal of faction-strife in my empire, and I actually had to surrender to the enemy I was attacking and pay reparations due to a rebellion which I just barely crushed.]

And at last, very enjoyable game. No crashes, no glitches. I love seeing the traits limit your ability to wage war.

- Ultimogeniture should be impossible (except for Mongols). Make sure you check in the latest version
- Yeah, I can't do much about the military AI
- Which ones?
- Sometimes they expand, yeah. Not much I can do
- In my games the Il-Khanate/Golden Horde usually collapses after a while, but it varies
- I'm not sure there's much I can do to direct the hordes

If this would be able to implement, then IMHO this might be compromise for the argument I had with Meneth on this matter. IMHO it would even be more plausible, then the current system, since it would take into account that they share a border and it will also allow for pretty borders without forcing a too rapid disintegration.

EDIT: perhaps something like this?

any_neighbor_province = {
        owner = {
            top_liege = {
                has_landed_title = e_hre
            }
        }
    }

The issue is that beyond single-province enclaves, identifying enclaves is not easily doable.

 

[Meneth]

wait, I need to ask: does PB+SWMH work? isn't SWMH outdated? or am I missing something that should be self-evident?

PB+SWMH works, since SWMH was updated for TOG a bit over a week ago or some such.

 

[Meneth]

That's disappointing, since IMHO that would have combined the 'best of both worlds'. Though I might try and experiment in my own slightly personalized version.

BTW it would be more accurate to say that SWMH is updated for patch 1.10x and not quite everything for TOG yet (unless I missed an update yesterday), so temporarily no 867 start date and navigatable rivers.

Well, there's one navigable river up in Russia

How would I go about changing the minor nerf to Zoroastrians? I like the lack of Inbred trait in my family line. Note it isn't a tree, we don't branch.

It's in defines.lua. Search for inbred and you'll find it.

 

[Meneth]

Skimming a thread in the main board I can see I wasn't imagining it; Paradox have restricted interfaith marriages in the last rounds of updates; is there anyway you can mod this back?

Probably hardcoded.

 

[Meneth]

Does it work with feudal vassals only? Because I had a successful independence plot (no war, the emperor just released everyone) where every non de jure vassal went free, save prince-bishops and republican counties.

The current beta version fixes an issue where all non-dejure vassals wouldn't go independent, which is likely what you ran into.

It's a CPR issue,but Meneth could fix it like the Nomad's buildings issue...

It's probably a CPR issue, and I cannot fix it.

Having an annoying issue. My current character's father was a Jewish courtier married matrillinealy to my previous Queen. When I took control of him I got an event which stated that as his father/mother was Jewish would I like to convert my character to Judaism. I declined the event but it keeps popping up month after month and is getting a little annoying. Anyone know where this event is located so I can tweak it?

Thanks

Not a PB event at least, so I have no idea sorry.

not sure if this is an issue or just coincidence (or hell, if it's caused by PB or VIET or SWMH), but clicking on the alexiad bookmark gives me a ctd for some reason. thought I'd drop a line since I shut down my pc anyway :laugh:

I'll look into it.

Has anyone experienced this bug?, in my current playthrough the Catholics conquered Jerusalem and the first rulers were from a random European culture (normal), but at some point they changed to arabic culture for no apparent reason, they didn't even married arabs or anything, more weird even, they're still catholic.

View attachment 83398

The only thing I can think of is that they assigned an arab (either Muslim or christian) as his guardian, but the AI is not idiotic enough to put it's heir under a different culture/religion guardian.....or are they?

That shouldn't be happening in PB, as I've set those event up to not allow Christians to convert to Arabic culture. It can still happen via guardians though, and I've got no plan to prevent that currently.
However, if you know what event it happened by (if not a guardian) I could look into it.

That is another problem, it doesn't seem to be available for me, i only saw it available once or twice and used it for Mesopotamia but i've basically reunited the whole empire without it, eas thinking that was WAD but seeing from your post it seems it's not, no idea why i can't them.

Check the "is war possible?" decisions.

Could somebody help out with this - I've been reading through this thread and the rest of the forum but I can't seem to find the answer:

I'm playing as the Count of a single county and I have strong claims (fabricated) on 2 neighbouring territories (another county belonging to a different de jure duchy and a prince-bishopric belonging to the de jure duchy I belong to). I've taken the gold and prestige hits that comes with using the claim, but I can't declare war on either of the rulers because it says I don't have a valid CB. I'm playing as the vassal of the Duke of Lower Lorraine, who has recently gained independence from the HRE, and as far as I'm aware there's no crown authority preventing me to declare war on vassals. I'm playing PB + SWMH + VIET Events and Traits modules.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Are they by any chance allied to you? In that case you need to meet some additional requirements that are listed in the "is war possible?" decisions.

 

[Meneth]

Hi Meneth, thanks for the quick reply. No, neither one of 'em is an ally.

Also, where could I check "Is war possible?" I seem to remember this used to be among the Intrigue decisions but it's not there now (possibly because I'm now running SWMH and VIET events + traits, which I wasn't before??)

As long as PB is properly enabled, the "is war possible" decision should be there. If it isn't, that's indicative of PB itself not being enabled.
To play your combination of mods, you've got to make sure you've got these mods enabled:

• PB
• PB+SWMH
• SWMH
• VIET Events
• VIET Traits (already included in PB though, so not really needed on its own)

It's likely you don't have PB itself enabled, breaking all CBs except for the Imperial Reconquest one.

 

[Meneth]

I believe I've found a major bug playing as Mercia, 867 start date. The feast decision disappears after being clicked on, the feast never happens and the option never comes back. I've read around a bit, and the problem seems to be related to the Duel Engine (vassals can duel each other during feasts), which hasn't been updated for The Old Gods but it still seems to be included in Project Balance. Might be causing more than one thing to short out.

I'm playing CK2 v1.101 and PB v3.2.17 with the PB version of VIET v1.3.1 (all PB-compatible modules).

I checked out the VIET thread as well, which is where I got the hint this was a Duel Engine problem.

The feast decision is working just fine for me. If used in October or later the feast should start immediately. If used before October it should fire in October or November.
It's possible VIET somehow breaks it though, in which case you should report it in that thread.

 

[Meneth]

I've just posted there, but I think this merits further testing. From what I can see, the Duel Engine is still within Project Balance despite being obsolete. If the issue's related to vassals dueling during feasts, then it's not a constant, and feasts would have a chance to trigger normally if people don't have a bone to pick with each other.

While the duel engine hasn't been updated, it's not obsolete.
Related files (E.G., feast events) will indeed be a bit outdated, but they'll still work just as they did in 1.092.

The feast trigger in PB is quite simple though. It'll trigger after month 10 (October) while you're not in prison and not at war. There's no way for the Duel Engine to interfere with it.

 

[Meneth]

I'm playing a game of PB+VIET as a Reformed West African Mali Empire, and I'm finding that I can't declare holy wars when it seems like I'm meeting all the requirements.

Here are the pop-ups for the Holy War check decision. All three holy war checks are positive.

Here's the region where I'm trying to declare war: Mali is peach, the target duchy is green, independent, Ibadi, and shares borders with my realm.

And here's what I see in the diplomacy screen when I want to declare war.

I can still use the Pagan conquest CB, but for some reason I can't declare holy wars on any of my neighbours, all of whom are Muslims. Are the check decisions up to date?

Additionally, and probably unrelated, is this. Since the start of the game, the holder of More has always been the holder of Sama, despite both of More's holdings belonging to its de jure duchy.

The issue with Möre is a VIET issue.
The holy war issue is likely also a VIET issue, as VIET changes some of the requirements for holy wars without updating the war checks.

 

[Meneth]

Thanks! Should I post in the VIET thread, then?

Yes. I keep bugging Cybr to update the "is war possible" decisions with his changes, but he still hasn't bothered.

 

[Meneth]

I'm using PB only (3.2.17) and having issues with the Subjugation CB.

All of the checks are green and I verified in the save file that I do not have the flag subjugation_done, I only have achievement_get_married and commissioned_runestone in the flags section. I also do not have launched_subjugation as a modifier. I wasn't sure if I'd have subjugation_done as my father started a Planned Invasion and my current character completed it.

The relevant block seems to be this in the CB:

                AND = {
                    NOT = { has_character_flag = subjugation_done }
                    OR = {
                        trait = ambitious
                        trait = diligent
                        trait = brave
                        capital_scope = {
                            kingdom = {
                                title = PREVPREVPREV
                            }
                        }
                    }
                }

I really can't see why it wouldn't work. All of the checks are green.

Send me the save and I'll look into it this evening.

 

[Meneth]

Playing as a vassal in Hungary, tournaments of the other lords seem to never happen because of "the death of X lord." I'm pretty sure they are not dying. I'm running PB, SWMH, PB+SWMH, PB VIET Events, and PB VIET Traits. I will get invited to the event, and then it will be cut short prematurely because of the lord's death. Happened quite a bit.

There are indeed quite a few issues with tournaments at the moment. They should be fixed when jordarkelf next updates the New Duel Engine mod, which hopefully he'll do soon. I believe he's been quite busy in real life for some time now, sadly.

Just a couple questions, firstly, did you change any CoA's in 3.2.17? i was using .14 until recently and now my syrian sultans CoA is the same as the sunni caliph's but a different colour but i can see from my list of save files that it used to be different. Secondly i was wondering if there is a way to stop Shia being a heresy of Sunni. i'm sorry if this has been asked before but it is hard to find anything on it. Lastly, i've been having a strange crash recently, i used to have some CTDs for various reasons but worked them out but this crash just freezes the game, the music keeps playing but nothing works and when i bring up task manager it's not responding, any ideas?

Thanks for the great ever updating mod!

I don't believe I've changed any CoAs (beyond defining CoAs for Pagan Scandinavian kingdoms), but any movement of titles and such will change the random CoAs generated for Muslims, Pagans, and Zoroastrians. It's likely what happened in your case.
Shia is meant to be a heresy in order to give characters the proper opinion penalties of one another; they were very often in conflict over religious matters.
I'm afraid I don't know of any common crashes in PB currently. If you've got a save where it can be reproduced I might be able to diagnose it though.

Why do the Old Gods scenario is after vanilla's first one.

The post-Hastings start is the primary balancing point and thus is what will give most people the best experience. It's therefore first.
867 should still be perfectly playable though, and more historically plausible than in vanilla.

 

[Meneth]

The feast issue got resolved overwriting VIET Immersion's feast_events.txt with the PB variant.

I've noticed a few things, playing as Jorvik. First time playing Norse, so I don't know whether these issues are intended or not:

- Your heirs/children don't seem to inherit a fraction of your prestige/piety.
- I've seen the Retinue Disabler building in counts' castles, when it's supposed to appear only if said holding's a barony.
- I can change my succession laws after 10 years of rule, being an unreformed Norse. I would've expected to be forced to remain gavelkind. At least until the faith's reformed.
- My two eldest sisters have a claim on my petty kingdom and hate me as title claimants (even though they don't seem to be official pretenders), despite the succession being Agnatic Gavelkind.

1. To my knowledge you're not supposed to inherit any of that. Though you do get a fraction of the dynastic prestige on birth.
2. As of the last version, single-province counts that aren't independent cannot raise retinues.
3. That might be a VIET issue; in PB that should not be possible unless you reform.
4. Vanilla issue I believe; to my knowledge all children get a weak claim even if the title law prevents them from inheriting. Not a PB issue at the very least.

 

[Meneth]

I am experiencing two issues. I have PB+SWMH
1. Tournaments that I start never end and ALWAYS have to be ended by that special event. This has spanned multiple versions and every single country/dynasty I play.
2. I cannot seem to be able to do certain actions even when all the conditions are met. For instance I am playing the Byzantine Empire and I cannot change the crown laws even though I have met all conditions. I was also playing as Kiev and I couldn't create the Russian Empire even though I met all the conditions.

1. I know :/ I'm still waiting for the author of the New Duel Engine to fix tournaments. I think I'll just restore vanilla tournaments next version unless he's given some indication of a soon coming fix by then.
2. You're probably not meeting the opinion requirement; due to vanilla issues it'll always show as true even if it isn't. No idea about Russia though.