Just something I started thinking about as I am playing the game as various countries. I find that some have some interesting 'gamey' things that will either help or hinder the players. A lot of it seems to be from the abstraction of the production cycles, and figured I would put it out here to see what others thought of it.
I have seen some proposals here that are really super-micromanaging, and am wondering if this might be a happy medium.
There are a couple of abstractions in the production module of the game which seem to make little sense in a game like this. While I would love to go to some incredible level of detail and make micromanaging everything a real love, I understand that the game still has to be playable.
So, in that vein, here are some breaks of logic that I have found (as apparently have others), with possible, not too micromanaging solutions:
A) The ability to change gears on production at a second’s notice:
Germany, late 1941: The war in Europe has gone well. The panzers are past Moscow, and the Soviet Union is about to fall. All of this is thanks to the German production monster churning out new and better tanks, planes, and replacements faster than anyone else for the last few years. The German economy is thriving. Suddenly, the word comes down. We need a navy. All of the new plans for ships that have been drawn up without any real production are brought out, and all of the industrial might of the Reich are thrown into producing a huge, state of the art fleet.
The problem? How is it that the production of planes can switch overnight into the production of ship parts (for any ship, even…). There should be significant re-tooling time, and some of the production should not be able to be transferable (those sections that have nothing to do with building ships or parts for ships).
Here’s a possible solution:
Just as the Tech Teams have specialization, why not have specialized production?
Break the production down into several segments:
Consumer Goods
Supplies
Aircraft Production
Shipbuilding
Armor
Small Arms
So, a province with 7 IC points might have the following:
1 Consumer Goods
1 Supplies
3 Aircraft
0 Shipbuilding
0 Armor
2 Small Arms
This province might have a Messerschmidt works or something along those lines.
The player would have a total in each to spend overall, so your overall production would be based on the available production capability you have in each category. Instead of the 1 production summary you have, you could have 6 of them, each showing what that portion of the industry is doing.
Starting off:
Along with a number of IC points that are already fixed, you have a portion of your overall ICs at the beginning that are variable – you are able to allocate them to any of the above categories in various provinces (whether they are fixed provinces or you get to choose is up for discussion). This will allow you to vary from the historical build capabilities off the start, while still limiting you from going crazy.
Changing specializations:
An IC point can change specializations at the cost of money, IC points, etc. Different combinations take differing times and costs to change over. Changing over will be shorter and cheaper than building a new factory in the process, and might even get you a small bonus for modernization of equipment (such as perhaps a .1 or .05 bonus for that point that is changed over).
A Shipbuilding point can be placed anywhere, though only if there are shipbuilding points available in port cities (i.e., you can’t start building a ship without having a shipbuilding point).
CAGs require air points.
So, if you had the above 7 IC province and had excess aircraft building capability and needed to build infantry, you could change one of the Aircraft points to Small Arms. This would take enough time to make it a decision that you would need to think about, and be expensive enough that changing back and forth will be expensive enough that it is not something that should be done every time you want to start a new unit.
If you wanted to change the point to a shipbuilding point, it would probably take longer than if you wanted to change it to a consumer goods point.
Concentration bonuses:
A bonus should be allowed for a certain concentration of the same kind of industries. For each point over a set amount, a bonus of .05 or .1 industry point in that area is awarded.
B) The reinforcement/replacement of units vs. producing new units
Here’s a couple of things that drive me bananas at times about reinforcements:
My Japanese empire stretches out from Japan all of the way to Turkey, and includes all of Africa. I come up against the Germans who have pushed deep into the soviet union and have forced a Bitter Peace. My 10 divisions of infantry come off the line and I have to place them in Japan proper. Germany? His 10 divisions of infantry come off the line and he can place them on the front lines. Much of the personnel that are used for the divisions (as well as the ICs) are coming from foreign sources in each case, but somehow, I lack the ability to deploy at the front line – it is as if he has forward training camps, but all of my training is going on just in the home islands. It also always had seemed strange to me that I could get trained troops to the front instantaneously to reinforce existing units, but somehow could not get a formed division to the front in the same way.
Early 1939 as Germany, I set down the keels for four Bismark class BBs and set it up so that a bunch of screening vessels will come off the line at the same time. In 1940 (just a couple of days before the ships come off the line) I annex Greece. The couple of days pass, and I can allocate the Bismark and the other ships from one of the ports in Greece, and, voila, I instantly have a very potent Mediterranean fleet. How did those ships get there, did the Thunderbirds come in with Thunderbird 2 and pick up the ships and transport them? (obscure reference, if you don’t get it, I’ll explain).
I’ve actually gone all of the way back to an old SPI game – War in the East – for a possible solution to the first case.
Have more kinds of ‘upgrades’ that can be built in a province.
A) Training Centers
A Training center allows for the distribution of 1 unit per timeframe (week, month, not sure yet) at the training center. Note that even though there might be enough ICs to build everything, a deficiency in the number of training centers could lead to backlogs in the deployment of built units. This would allow countries such as Japan to be able to build forward centers and thus be able to deploy units like any other country. It would also eliminate the problem of units suddenly appearing right on a front (unless that front had been static for a long period of time).
Training centers would have tech levels – i.e. a land one might have Improved Light Armor, 1939 Infantry, etc. as a rating. The training centers would require money and resources to upgrade if 1941 infantry were researched and the player wanted to start allocating 1941 Infantry there.
Captured training centers would have to go through a period of repair before they were able to be used by the capturing country, as well as upgrades for those whose levels were lower than the technology of the capturing country.
B) Distribution Centers
A distribution center would be the center from where a unit could gain access to the heavy arms and military hardware necessary to upgrade or otherwise improve (i.e. brigades). A unit would have to be able to trace a LOS to Distribution Center to be able to stay in full supply and be able to be upgraded in equipment. A unit with just a supply depot (the piles of supplies that are in the game now) would remain in supply, but not be able to be upgraded.
Naval Reinforcements:
In order to build a ship, not only do you need the ICs to be able to do so, but also a port to which it will be deployed which will be designated upon the laying of the keel (i.e. start the ship in production). Each Shipbuilding point in a port city allows you to start one ship (or perhaps ‘x’ number of screens or small ships) in that city.
This will eliminate the above, where a huge fleet can suddenly appear out of nowhere to wreak havoc in an area where no fleet should possibly be able to get to. If you really want to build a fleet in the med as the Germans, you would have to first get the port city on the med, then start to build the ships in that city, rather than the other way around as it is now.
C) Puppets
If you have a nation puppeted, why do you really have no say over the direction their research is going? Why not have an option to have them working along a particular vein of research? If you are heavy in the Naval research, why not have one of the puppets researching armor, and another researching infantry so that you can better use the blueprints amongst your puppeted group?
Also, in regards to the above proposal with Training centers, the parent country could send leaders to the puppet to serve as 'consultants' with which to speed the upgrading of the training centers in the puppet, which would remove the leader for 'x' time from the parent's pool.
Thoughts? As I said, am thinking that this might be a medium between some of the micromanaging of some of the other threads on here and what exists now.
I have seen some proposals here that are really super-micromanaging, and am wondering if this might be a happy medium.
There are a couple of abstractions in the production module of the game which seem to make little sense in a game like this. While I would love to go to some incredible level of detail and make micromanaging everything a real love, I understand that the game still has to be playable.
So, in that vein, here are some breaks of logic that I have found (as apparently have others), with possible, not too micromanaging solutions:
A) The ability to change gears on production at a second’s notice:
Germany, late 1941: The war in Europe has gone well. The panzers are past Moscow, and the Soviet Union is about to fall. All of this is thanks to the German production monster churning out new and better tanks, planes, and replacements faster than anyone else for the last few years. The German economy is thriving. Suddenly, the word comes down. We need a navy. All of the new plans for ships that have been drawn up without any real production are brought out, and all of the industrial might of the Reich are thrown into producing a huge, state of the art fleet.
The problem? How is it that the production of planes can switch overnight into the production of ship parts (for any ship, even…). There should be significant re-tooling time, and some of the production should not be able to be transferable (those sections that have nothing to do with building ships or parts for ships).
Here’s a possible solution:
Just as the Tech Teams have specialization, why not have specialized production?
Break the production down into several segments:
Consumer Goods
Supplies
Aircraft Production
Shipbuilding
Armor
Small Arms
So, a province with 7 IC points might have the following:
1 Consumer Goods
1 Supplies
3 Aircraft
0 Shipbuilding
0 Armor
2 Small Arms
This province might have a Messerschmidt works or something along those lines.
The player would have a total in each to spend overall, so your overall production would be based on the available production capability you have in each category. Instead of the 1 production summary you have, you could have 6 of them, each showing what that portion of the industry is doing.
Starting off:
Along with a number of IC points that are already fixed, you have a portion of your overall ICs at the beginning that are variable – you are able to allocate them to any of the above categories in various provinces (whether they are fixed provinces or you get to choose is up for discussion). This will allow you to vary from the historical build capabilities off the start, while still limiting you from going crazy.
Changing specializations:
An IC point can change specializations at the cost of money, IC points, etc. Different combinations take differing times and costs to change over. Changing over will be shorter and cheaper than building a new factory in the process, and might even get you a small bonus for modernization of equipment (such as perhaps a .1 or .05 bonus for that point that is changed over).
A Shipbuilding point can be placed anywhere, though only if there are shipbuilding points available in port cities (i.e., you can’t start building a ship without having a shipbuilding point).
CAGs require air points.
So, if you had the above 7 IC province and had excess aircraft building capability and needed to build infantry, you could change one of the Aircraft points to Small Arms. This would take enough time to make it a decision that you would need to think about, and be expensive enough that changing back and forth will be expensive enough that it is not something that should be done every time you want to start a new unit.
If you wanted to change the point to a shipbuilding point, it would probably take longer than if you wanted to change it to a consumer goods point.
Concentration bonuses:
A bonus should be allowed for a certain concentration of the same kind of industries. For each point over a set amount, a bonus of .05 or .1 industry point in that area is awarded.
B) The reinforcement/replacement of units vs. producing new units
Here’s a couple of things that drive me bananas at times about reinforcements:
My Japanese empire stretches out from Japan all of the way to Turkey, and includes all of Africa. I come up against the Germans who have pushed deep into the soviet union and have forced a Bitter Peace. My 10 divisions of infantry come off the line and I have to place them in Japan proper. Germany? His 10 divisions of infantry come off the line and he can place them on the front lines. Much of the personnel that are used for the divisions (as well as the ICs) are coming from foreign sources in each case, but somehow, I lack the ability to deploy at the front line – it is as if he has forward training camps, but all of my training is going on just in the home islands. It also always had seemed strange to me that I could get trained troops to the front instantaneously to reinforce existing units, but somehow could not get a formed division to the front in the same way.
Early 1939 as Germany, I set down the keels for four Bismark class BBs and set it up so that a bunch of screening vessels will come off the line at the same time. In 1940 (just a couple of days before the ships come off the line) I annex Greece. The couple of days pass, and I can allocate the Bismark and the other ships from one of the ports in Greece, and, voila, I instantly have a very potent Mediterranean fleet. How did those ships get there, did the Thunderbirds come in with Thunderbird 2 and pick up the ships and transport them? (obscure reference, if you don’t get it, I’ll explain).
I’ve actually gone all of the way back to an old SPI game – War in the East – for a possible solution to the first case.
Have more kinds of ‘upgrades’ that can be built in a province.
A) Training Centers
A Training center allows for the distribution of 1 unit per timeframe (week, month, not sure yet) at the training center. Note that even though there might be enough ICs to build everything, a deficiency in the number of training centers could lead to backlogs in the deployment of built units. This would allow countries such as Japan to be able to build forward centers and thus be able to deploy units like any other country. It would also eliminate the problem of units suddenly appearing right on a front (unless that front had been static for a long period of time).
Training centers would have tech levels – i.e. a land one might have Improved Light Armor, 1939 Infantry, etc. as a rating. The training centers would require money and resources to upgrade if 1941 infantry were researched and the player wanted to start allocating 1941 Infantry there.
Captured training centers would have to go through a period of repair before they were able to be used by the capturing country, as well as upgrades for those whose levels were lower than the technology of the capturing country.
B) Distribution Centers
A distribution center would be the center from where a unit could gain access to the heavy arms and military hardware necessary to upgrade or otherwise improve (i.e. brigades). A unit would have to be able to trace a LOS to Distribution Center to be able to stay in full supply and be able to be upgraded in equipment. A unit with just a supply depot (the piles of supplies that are in the game now) would remain in supply, but not be able to be upgraded.
Naval Reinforcements:
In order to build a ship, not only do you need the ICs to be able to do so, but also a port to which it will be deployed which will be designated upon the laying of the keel (i.e. start the ship in production). Each Shipbuilding point in a port city allows you to start one ship (or perhaps ‘x’ number of screens or small ships) in that city.
This will eliminate the above, where a huge fleet can suddenly appear out of nowhere to wreak havoc in an area where no fleet should possibly be able to get to. If you really want to build a fleet in the med as the Germans, you would have to first get the port city on the med, then start to build the ships in that city, rather than the other way around as it is now.
C) Puppets
If you have a nation puppeted, why do you really have no say over the direction their research is going? Why not have an option to have them working along a particular vein of research? If you are heavy in the Naval research, why not have one of the puppets researching armor, and another researching infantry so that you can better use the blueprints amongst your puppeted group?
Also, in regards to the above proposal with Training centers, the parent country could send leaders to the puppet to serve as 'consultants' with which to speed the upgrading of the training centers in the puppet, which would remove the leader for 'x' time from the parent's pool.
Thoughts? As I said, am thinking that this might be a medium between some of the micromanaging of some of the other threads on here and what exists now.
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