Problems with Islam in CK3

[NoUsernamesHere]

Unfortunately we do not currently have dynamic scrolling for the Tenets screen.

While you can add additional Tenets to a Faith, it looks quite messy. With 4 Tenets there will be some overlapping text, and at 5+ Tenets some information will start to go off the side of the screen (though all of the correct effects still get applied).

As an alternative, a modder could convert a specific Tenet into a Doctrine or duplicate the effects of a Tenet inside of a new Doctrine. Doctrines do support dynamic scrolling, so this is probably the easiest solution. A more difficult solution would be to have a modder edit the GUI script to add dynamic scrolling for Tenets, which might be tricky but is certainly still possible.

Any chance that dynamic scrolling could be added to Tenets in a later patch at some point?

 

[Zeeg]

perhaps?

 

[DavidYung]

perhaps?

Maybe?

 

[Zeeg]

Giving "Sunni faiths" multiple heads is absurd.
Isn't this going to result in multiple Sunni Jihads, like an Ashari Jihad and a Maturidi Jihad, happening at the same time?
WIll the Catholic Crusade have to choose between attacking the Ashari or Maturidi?
Will historical figures like Saladin be randomly assigned a branch?
Are they going to have separate Holy Orders as well?

Splitting Sunni is a mistake as it makes very little sense, and has historically never happened. Orthodox and Catholic are far more different than Ashari and Maturidi. It would be like splitting Catholic into Dominican and Franciscan (I guess I can't really find an appropriate analogy). It just adds unnecessary complication and removes all historicity.

Shias having multiple heads can make sense during the game's time frame as well I think, and so splitting them is fine as they are different both religiously and historically.

I think keeping the CK2 system of having characters with high Learning being able to choose a Schools as a trait is a better idea personally.

If they want to fit this into the new system, then a suggestion would be:

Abrahamic --> Islamic --> Sunni (---> choose a School as a trait)
Abrahamic --> Islamic --> Ismaili
Abrahamic --> Islamic --> Zaydi
etc

instead of

Abrahamic --> Islamic --> Ashari/Maturidi

Hope this can be sorted out

This seems the best solution or something similair, hopefully throught patches this matter will be sorted out

 

[Sabotage13]

I'm looking forward to a Muslim DLC that will hopefully fix this wonkiness, 1-2 years after release.

 

[klopkr]

It looks like Cordoba and The middle east follow different sunni faiths. I wonder if part of the reason each can have their own religious head was so they could put a caliph in cordoba. That seems like a bit of a lazy way of achieving anti-caliphs.

I kind of wish that there was just one sunni faith but members could change to the different faith branches freely with little penalty among the other sunni's but all would share one caliph and anti-caliph could be declared by sayyids.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

It looks like Cordoba and The middle east follow different sunni faiths. I wonder if part of the reason each can have their own religious head was so they could put a caliph in cordoba. That seems like a bit of a lazy way of achieving anti-caliphs.

I kind of wish that there was just one sunni faith but members could change to the different faith branches freely with little penalty among the other sunni's but all would share one caliph and anti-caliph could be declared by sayyids.

Qarmatians: Now that would be tricky.

(Were they Sayyids? I don't recall. I'll delete this post if someone finds out they were.)

 

[Suleyman Al-Umawi]

Mixing of aqida and cultural name to put them as faith it's outrageous

 

[Pied-Noir]

Caliphates:

• Due to technical limitations, each Faith can only have 1 Religious Head. Additionally, Religious Heads cannot currently be shared between Faiths.

I assume this a general statement as it appears to be a result of the game engine. So, are you saying that Insular Catholics (Celts) have their own pope, and do not follow the bishop of Rome?

(Sorry if I've misunderstood this)

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I assume this a general statement as it appears to be a result of the game engine. So, are you saying that Insular Catholics (Celts) have their own pope, and do not follow the bishop of Rome?

(Sorry if I've misunderstood this)

At present, but the devs have said it is something that is intended to be resolved, allowing for shared heads of faith at *some point* in the future.
It's alluded to in the post you responded to, although it might not have been entirely as clear as it could be.

We would very much like to add support for multiple Faiths to share a single Religious Head in a future patch.

• This would allow all (or at least most, might exclude the Muwalladi/Masmudi) Sunni Faiths to share the Sunni Caliphate as their Religious Head, with the Caliph personally being able to follow any Sunni Faiths while still being the Religious Head of all of them.
• Unfortunately, due to various limitations we will not be able to implement this for release.

As far as it goes with the Insular Church, assume the "Head of Faith" is the most prominent Archbishop and is a de facto head of the religious grouping, rather than actually a "Pope".

 

[Karlington]

As far as it goes with the Insular Church, assume the "Head of Faith" is the most prominent Archbishop and is a de facto head of the religious grouping, rather than actually a "Pope".

Unfortunately this isn't the way the game appears to work. Since the "Celtic Pope" is the religious head of that religion, the CP is the one who is the final authority on decisions made by the religious head, i.e. whether to go to GHW or not and against whom, if someone can get divorced or not, excommunications, etc. If you want a divorce that the Pope would never consider but the CP approves it, then you will get your divorce. The Pope has no authority as he's not even your religion, but the CP does.

Because of this, even if you manage to build up an illusion in your mind for immersion purposes (like you suggest), the game will shatter that illusion at every turn.

 

[Pied-Noir]

A Celtic Pope...

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Unfortunately this isn't the way the game appears to work. Since the "Celtic Pope" is the religious head of that religion, the CP is the one who is the final authority on decisions made by the religious head, i.e. whether to go to GHW or not and against whom, if someone can get divorced or not, excommunications, etc. If you want a divorce that the Pope would never consider but the CP approves it, then you will get your divorce. The Pope has no authority as he's not even your religion, but the CP does.

Because of this, even if you manage to build up an illusion in your mind for immersion purposes (like you suggest), the game will shatter that illusion at every turn.

Many times the *actual* decision on a matter such as a divorce or excommunication would be made by the senior archbishop for a given kingdom anyway.

In *theory* these were something the Pope was meant to handle, but it was often quicker for such rights to be delgated to "the man on the spot".

But yes, it's a temporary abstraction, and about the best we're going to get until they have a way to have a head of faith serve mutliple faiths at once. And it's probably about the best we can hope for.

 

[philanthropic19]

I believe the real problem is that the common Muslim populace of a region never identified as "Ash'ari" or "Maturidi" in history, neither do they do so today. These identifications were schools of thought that only scholars or some political leaders ascribed to. Hence, in context of the game an "Ash'ari" province or "Maturidi" province makes no sense at all. The province's population must be Sunni whereas the ruler may choose to ascribe to any school they wish (like in CK2).

EDIT: I find it curious that what I have posted is a fact, and yet people have disagreed with it without posting any evidence to the contrary.

 

[Xenrek]

Honestly; allowing Faith's to branch with "acceptable heresies" similar to dynasties forming houses, should really be like, a priority for either the first or second expansion.

That way the pope can be the religious head of "western christianity" and make the religious decisions for all of them

 

[Karlington]

Honestly; allowing Faith's to branch with "acceptable heresies" similar to dynasties forming houses, should really be like, a priority for either the first or second expansion.

That way the pope can be the religious head of "western christianity" and make the religious decisions for all of them

Agreed. It may be hard to draw the line here, but I think that if a Christian faith develops from Catholicism and replaces monasticism with something that doesn't contradict Catholic doctrine, they should be able to continue under the Pope. But if for example they proclaim that a man may have multiple wives, let them be anathema.

 

[NoUsernamesHere]

I find it curious that what I have posted is a fact, and yet people have disagreed with it without posting any evidence to the contrary.

Welcome to the Paradox Plaza!

 

[Karlington]

Welcome to the Paradox Plaza!

Some people use "Respectfully Disagree" as if it meant "Dislike," and it doesn't have to have any connection to the accuracy of your statement. You could probably post "It's going to rain all day!" and even if it's 100% true you'd get the disagrees because some people were hoping for sunny weather.

 

[NoUsernamesHere]

Some people use "Respectfully Disagree" as if it meant "Dislike," and it doesn't have to have any connection to the accuracy of your statement. You could probably post "It's going to rain all day!" and even if it's 100% true you'd get the disagrees because some people were hoping for sunny weather.

You're probably right about that lol.

 

[Hohenheim147]

Maybe can go back to something similar or better than CK2 anti-pope system, the EU4 Religious Leagues and Cadet House of CK3. Some of my idea (to be balanced) as follow:

By default, the one with the most counties of faith will be the head of faith. For example, Ashari have more counties than other faith from the same family, the they will get the Caliph tittle. This can be changed by reforming faith, setting up head of faith (parallel head of faith / anti pope).

Parallel Head of Faith across multiple faith of the same family can be destroyed (Forced Doctrines: no religious head) by giving them (faith member and head of faith) casus belli for faith wars. Any faith member (and maybe non-faith ?) can join the war. Losing the faith war means losing the head of faith for many years and heavy penalty to piety to raise another parallel head of faith.

Having parallel head of faith will have drawback. Fervor will be balance with number head of faith. Having two Caliph will cause both Fervor towards 50 fervor. Having 3 Caliph will balance toward 33 fervor.

All the above might be different (special) toward certain faith like Ortodoxy and Shia.

Example: An Abbasid Caliph in Baghdad can declare war to Umayyad Caliph in Spain to dethrone the Caliph (changing Head of Faith to none and penalizing with a lot of piety if want to raise another Caliph (Head of Faith).

Another Example: Insular Church can be declared war by surrounding Catholic to dethrone the Celtic Pope and Rome Pope can join this war.

I saw a games where the Pope keep on declaring crusade to the heretic instead of focusing on the middle east.