Problems with current Bulgaria in CK3

[Antimonum]

Who is Avitohol

He is the mythical founder of Dulo dynasty according to the Nominalia of Bulgarian Khans. Since the second Khan on the list is Ernek, which is the same as the Name of the son of Attila, most historians think, that Avitohol is Attila or at least a mythical ancestor of his.
All of the rulers in the list are dated with the Bulgar Calender as to when they ruled and how many years they ruled. The first two rulers on the list are at least partly mythical since both of them are shown to have ruled more than a hundred of years.
The Nominalia of the Bulgarian Khans is a Russian Slavonic language copy found in Russia. Professor Mosko Moskov made a language analysis and had a hypothesis, that it is likely a translation from Old Bulgarian and before that from Greek. Since all of the Bulgar stone inscriptions found in Bulgaria were in Greek, Moskov speculates that the text is a translation of a stone inscription not found until now or not existing anymore.

 

[Ksiendzu]

Bulgaria in 867 start date.
Source:

(10:26)

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Bulgaria in 867 start date.
Source:

(10:26)

View attachment 803365

Yes?

 

[IlikeTrains]

Bulgaria in 867 start date.
Source:

(10:26)

View attachment 803365

A significant chunk of land has been given to Bulgaria.

 

[Antimonum]

A significant chunk on land has been given to Bulgaria.View attachment 803421

Yeah it looks very nice now, not gonna lie. We of course already knew it months ago precisely and guessed it in this thread, based on dev diaries hints and a culture map by the IGN Review if you look at earlier discussions on this thread.

PS Nevertheless, cheers to the developers for paying attention to our discussion and implementing some of it.

 

[Byzantium2000]

A significant chunk of land has been given to Bulgaria.View attachment 803421

Altho now it’s all Greek culture instead of Bulgarian(outside of Philippopolis which was already Greek), Mosynopolis too.

I find it weird that when CK3 launched, Bulgaria had the 2 southern counties of Albania but then they were given to Byzantium in an update.

 

[Antimonum]

Altho now it’s all Greek culture instead of Bulgarian(outside of Philippopolis which was already Greek), Mosynopolis too.

I find it weird that when CK3 launched, Bulgaria had the 2 southern counties of Albania but then they were given to Byzantium in an update.

You could never retrospectively know the majority culture of the region (today's northern Thrace), since cities were as a rule Greek and surrounding area was slavic but at least Berroe had enough time in Bulgaria at that point to flip culture to Bulgarian. Also I doubt, that the Rhodope mountains were Greek culture.
Other than that I never noticed that provinces were removed in Albania but I think I remember them. I wonder why they did that other than to clean up borders.

 

[Pyroshrimp]

LETS GO THEY GAVE SIMEON THE QUICK TRAIT AND MADE THE VASSALS CHRISTIAN

 

[daniloy]

Interesting that the Bulgarians get merciful blindings.

 

[Antimonum]

Interesting that the Bulgarians get merciful blindings.

Yeah, 2 Rulers got blinded in History - the oldest son of Boris (playable in 867) Vladimir Rasate actually got blinded by his father (who after abdicating and going to the Monastery, got out of the monastery, in order to blind his, up until then secretly Pagan son, for reverting the country to Paganism). Another Ruler Boril was blinded for usurping the throne. I agree with the name of the Mechanic Merciful blindings because it is a mercy to spare somebody`s life by blinding him.

What I disagree with, is the main reason to blind a person is not implemented. The reason to blind somebody is to render them unfit to rule, that means both banish and disinherit. That is why Boris blinded his son - to make it so that he could never rule.

As I was role playing with Boris and blinded my oldest son for his heathen ways, he got released back to his duchy and stayed my heir and lived happily ever after. I did get some piety by blinding him, since he was criminal but could not make him lose his Inheritance and had to spend all my prestige and half of my renown to disinherit him.

My disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined

PS I also did not like that the Bulgar cavalry was not encluded instead of the generic slavic konni. I liked very much the Bulgarian culture being administrative though.

 

[Pyroshrimp]

they had it but yea it is cool to have

 

[Pyroshrimp]

Yeah, 2 Rulers got blinded in History - the oldest son of Boris (playable in 867) Vladimir Rasate actually got blinded by his father (who after abdicating and going to the Monastery, got out of the monastery, in order to blind his, up until then secretly Pagan son, for reverting the country to Paganism). Another Ruler Boril was blinded for usurping the throne. I agree with the name of the Mechanic Merciful blindings because it is a mercy to spare somebody`s life by blinding him.

What I disagree with, is the main reason to blind a person is not implemented. The reason to blind somebody is to render them unfit to rule, that means both banish and disinherit. That is why Boris blinded his son - to make it so that he could never rule.

As I was role playing with Boris and blinded my oldest son for his heathen ways, he got released back to his duchy and stayed my heir and lived happily ever after. I did get some piety by blinding him, since he was criminal but could not make him loose his Inheritance and had to spend all my prestige and half of my renown to disinherit him.

My disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined

PS I also did not like that the Bulgar cavalry was not encluded instead of the generic slavic konni. I liked very much the Bulgarian culture being administrative though .

The bulgar culture doesn't even get anything unique, but mabye one dday

 

[Antimonum]

The bulgar culture doesn't even get anything unique, but mabye one dday

It gets horse lords, which is the same as the other horse nomads. I wish Bulgarian culture had some version of this. Also a disappointment is that there is no sign of hybridization with the Bulgars and the culture is treated as a Slavic culture alone.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

It gets horse lords, which is the same as the other horse nomads. I wish Bulgarian culture had some version of this. Also a disappointment is that there is no sign of hybridization with the Bulgars and the culture is treated as a Slavic culture alone.

Would be interesting to see what date they'd give them

 

[Antimonum]

LETS GO THEY GAVE SIMEON THE QUICK TRAIT AND MADE THE VASSALS CHRISTIAN

Yes, very nice indeed, especially for removing lisping, but quick ist not enough. I understand that genius is too OP because it is inheritable but they could have given him intelligent, after all he is not the first ruler to beguin stacking genetic traits right away. And Simeon of Bulgaria in History achieved much more in his life than many overpowered CKIII characters, even more than Alfred the great. Simeon made a litteral recognized empire out of Bulgaria, while having the best education out of all the european monarchs. I do not understand why they went so conservative with his traits. People should also not forget, that bad childhood events still happen in his education and he can also get some bad traits or bad stress traits and he also gets screwd a bit by AI randomness. In my game he became an Alcoholic in his childhood.

But I guess they could give him unique modifiers CBs and events in future updates. Quick is kind of very underwhelming though.

And which vassals are newly Christian that previously weren't? I did not notice any.

 

[Pyroshrimp]

Wallachia and moldovia, exept for muntenia, Sredets, Vlad, and Visegrad

 

[Antimonum]

Wallachia and moldovia, exept for muntenia, Sredets, Vlad, and Visegrad

Indeed four Vlach counts were changed to Othodox, which is significant.

I was fully expecting the Bolghar (or Bulgar) Slavic (?!) faith vassal of Munteinia to get replaced by Bulgarian orthodox since the Bulgar elite were already getting fully hybridized (Boris is in the same Bulgar ruler category but for some reason there are foreign culture Bohlgar vassals, which makes no sense. Either all of the Bulgarian nobles inclusive the King should be Bulgar (Bolghar) or all considered fully hybridized Bulgarian. Bolghar culture was not foreign unrelated but already Slavic named (like Mostich - the ichirgu Boil under Simeon and Peter), Slavic speaking, but retaining their traditions and Military. I am very disappointed, that after the culture update we are still seeing separate foreign Bolghar culture unhybridized, while the other vassals and the ruler did somehow get magically fully Slavic-Bulgarian, clearly a missed opportunity to do cultures right.

I did try to make in game Hybridization between Bulgarian and Bolghar but it was very convoluted and involved changing the culture if my heir out of Bulgarian, which I did not want. The thing is - the Hybridization should be fully done already. The reason why the culture is called Bulgarian and not Smolyani for example is that the emphasis was given to the ruling Bulgar (Bolghar) class even though they were linguistically and genetically assimilated by the Slavs, the Administration and Military were clearly still Bulgar (the administration was also partly Greek speaking).

And the Vlach culture is still fully Slavic but speaking Latin. The Slavic tribes of Walachia did not speak Latin, but a separate from them non Slavic Vlach people did and those Latin speakers were surely not the ruling class in 867.

I think Paradox managed to make out of the Balkans a bigger mess, than in real life, which is an achievement on its own.

 

[Antimonum]

As I was loading older Patches to check what vassals changed religion in the newest patch I noticed that in the Corvus Update Boris did get nerfed from Diligent Brave and generous to Ambitious Callous and Cynical, which is very unfortunate from a historical perspective. Even though I fully accept Callous, Cynical (an euphemism for atheist) is not painting the right picture. Boris came out of the Monastery where he moved after stepping down from the throne and blinded the eyes of his still ruling oldest son with hot Irons to protect religion. He is also venerated as a saint both in the orthodox and catholic church.
He should should really not be cynical.

 

[Pyroshrimp]

How was he callous?

 

[Antimonum]

How was he callous?

We don`t know, but he blinded his son. He had of course reason for it and it was merciful if you look at the alternative (to execute him). But callous I could accept cynical ergo unreligious I do not think is remotely possible.