Problematic vassal's vassal

[GabrielLoki]

I have a strong claim on middlesex as the king of wales. before I could act on this claim, a countess(and rival) usurped middlesex. she is not my direct vassal, but has plenty of reason to hate me for killing her children(they would have inherited both her county and the duchy of deheubarth). she is not my direct vassal, but her liege likes me. I can't just revoke middlesex from her, for some reason. I'm 63 and depressed, not likely to live much longer, but my heir will not inherit my claim on middlesex.
(Sorry for the lack of capital letters, typing on my phone.)

 

[Shebaloso]

There's a rule of thumb for understanding feudalism (not only ingame...) that goes like this: "The vassal of my vassal is not my vassal".

Essentially, you have no say whatsoever on your vassal's vassals' titles. If you really want to get that county, you can retract the vassalage of the countess from her current liege, which would make her answer directly to you, and THEN you would be able to revoke the title. Be aware, though, that retracting vassals under feudal and late feudal law incurs not only an opinion penalty (-30) with the character from whom you are retracting a vassal, but also a realm-wide tyranny penalty (-10), which affects ALL your feudal vassals. If the countess' primary title (pay attention here, as her primary title is not necessarily the county of middlesex) also happens to be a de jure county of her current liege's titles, those penalties become (-60) and (-15) respectively.

 

[GabrielLoki]

She's part of the duchy of hwicce, so middlesex was never hers to take I suppose. what happens if I create the duchy of essex?

 

[Shebaloso]

dude, nothing will happen if you create the duchy of essex, as she is already a vassal under the duke of hwicce. Is the county of middlesex her primary title (does she have multiple counties or only one?)? If you want to revoke that county, you WILL HAVE to retract her from the duke of hwicce. If she isn't his de jure vassal (i.e. if her primary title is NOT any of the de jure counties of the duchy of hwicce), just suck the penalties up and retract her.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

How do you get on with the duke of Hwicce? If he revolts (or with the right setup becomes the wrong religion) you can revoke his duchy, which may leave the countess of middlesex back in your hands as a vassal.

Alternatively, who are their heirs? Can you get control of the county if someone were to "accidentally" fall off a tall building?