PRO&CONTRA: AirlandBattle vs. Shock&Awe (Superior Firepower)

[ocelot64]

Hello guys. I want to hear from you which branch of the Superior Firepower doctrine you prefer.
Is AirlandBattle 'better' than Shock&Awe?

I'm somehow totally biased towards Shock&Awe, despite my desire to try AirlandBattle. Every time I'm at the intersection, I choose Shock&Awe.

So what totally wins me over for Shock&Awe is the combined 15% bonus to army soft attack and 10% to army hard attack. Plus, you get +1 level of recce with the reconnaissance company, which can tilt the iniative in your favour. Also, leg infantry, mot&mech infantry and tanks&tank variants get a 0.05 ORG recovery bonus. Infantry get +10 ORG.

AirlandBattle? +10% army hard attack, Tanks & tank variants get +10% to soft and hard attack. +5 ORG for all front line battalions and +20% to friendly air superiority effect on enemy divisions.

Both branches get +2% to reinforcement.

I know air superiority can be very strong mid- to late-game. Say -40% to -60% penalty to enemy defence/breakthrough. But still, I get this even without AirlandBattle.

So, do the bonuses from AirlandBattle outweigh those from Shock&Awe?

I'd be grateful for your input. Thank you.

 

[porta80]

Belongs to the situation, and nation you are playing. I minor with no airforce e.g. Better goes for more soft attack. As U.S. Probably air land is better.

 

[Zwirbaum]

I have monstrous headache today, so I will make only short ppst about it.

In general I prefer Shock&Awe due to giving army wide soft and hard attack boosts, ORG and recovery boost in S&A is also more appreciated IMO.

However it is quite fun to be playing as Spain with Battlefield Support Doctrine and Airland Battle to inflict 80% penalty to enemy speed and breakthrough and defense (IIRC it is 80%).

One of the biggest problems of Airland Battle it requires for you to be possesing air supieriority and other boosts in this doctrine subtree mainly affect tanks, which put even more emphasis on the fact that you need to be industrially capable.

TLR Usually prefer Shock and Awe, but Airland Battle have possibilities to be used.

 

[P3D]

1941 SpAA with the crazy variant bonus will negate most of the enemy air superiority effect. Of course not all divisions would have them.

 

[BaddoSpirito]

Airland battle is better if you have very strong air superiority.

 

[ocelot64]

Airland battle is better if you have very strong air superiority.

Please, quantify 'strong air superiority'. 100, 200, 300 airplanes? Or more?

 

[Diados]

I think you need thousands of aircraft to get the most out of the bonus. The number of planes required probably increases in a non linear manner. I know as Germany with ~4k planes over Yugoslavia I was only giving a 67.5% air superiority penalty despite my cap being 80% from battlefield support + Goebbels. This was with under 200 planes on the defending side as well.

 

[Comrade110]

Please, quantify 'strong air superiority'. 100, 200, 300 airplanes? Or more?

Not about numbers (you juts need 100% air superiority over region for max effect), but having all air doctrines with "air superiority %", then having air minister aswell, some nations got even the not air guy with air superiority bonus (bottom right side with 3 choices in govermetn).

If you put additional 20% from airland battle on all of those, enemy gets really crippled on speed/defense/breakthrough, unless he has high Air attack in division which will negate some air superiority malus %.

 

[BaddoSpirito]

Please, quantify 'strong air superiority'. 100, 200, 300 airplanes? Or more?

75% or more air superiority with at least 600 planes so you get the full bonus.

 

[ocelot64]

Thank you. What is the maximum air support bonus applied to you division in battle? I've seen around 15% bonus (without battlefield support doctrine). Can it go much higher than that?

 

[Zwirbaum]

Thank you. What is the maximum air support bonus applied to you division in battle? I've seen around 15% bonus (without battlefield support doctrine). Can it go much higher than that?

Airland Battlea is about getting Air Supieriority penalty to your enemies, not about buffing the bonus you get from 'ground support'. (Close Air Support mission).

 

[ocelot64]

Airland Battlea is about getting Air Supieriority penalty to your enemies, not about buffing the bonus you get from 'ground support'. (Close Air Support mission).

Yes, I do know that. My question about air support bonus was unrelated to the original topic of this thread. I just didn't want to open a new thread for a single question.

 

[Meglok]

75% or more air superiority with at least 600 planes so you get the full bonus.

And that required AirSup is over each region you want to fight in to get the bonus. S&A bonuses are automatic to your entire army and are better overall.

That being said, unless I am an MIC rich nation with the resources to support massive aircraft production on top of lots of artillery production (after all, if you are using SF you had better be building gobs of artillery) I am going down the S&A line.

 

[The-False-Being26]

I think you need thousands of aircraft to get the most out of the bonus. The number of planes required probably increases in a non linear manner. I know as Germany with ~4k planes over Yugoslavia I was only giving a 67.5% air superiority penalty despite my cap being 80% from battlefield support + Goebbels. This was with under 200 planes on the defending side as well.

Your planes were most like placed in far away airports which gave you large penaltys to air superiority.

 

[Surimi]

Shock and Awe is probably a bit better on paper for most situations in single player. If you're in a multiplayer enviornment with loads of tanks, airland battle might be better..

However, Airland Battle is, I would say, overall more interesting and fun, which for me is significant because I generally find superior firepower a bit boring to play. Being tied to air warfare (which is admittedly kind of broken) makes it a bit more interactive than just giving a bunch of inherent attack bonuses.

 

[Diados]

Your planes were most like placed in far away airports which gave you large penaltys to air superiority.

I did another test against Switzerland with all planes based directly in the zone. Pretty similar result despite there being almost 5k planes this time. Though the max I saw was 70% penalty. Min was 45%. Lots of 65% as well.

The 45% was in an urban zone, with most of the rest being mountains. I don't know if terrain matters, though I do know there were no enemy AA divisions.

It is possible that I was at some sort of cap with terrain limiting the bonus as well. There were however some uneven numbers like 6x%.

I probably should have tried with 600 planes as well. Because if it is a hard limit like that, then airland battle + strategic destruction would be pretty broken (raises air superiority cap to 100%, 110% w/ Goebbels if there is a terrain penalty).

 

[Meglok]

I did another test against Switzerland with all planes based directly in the zone. Pretty similar result despite there being almost 5k planes this time. Though the max I saw was 70% penalty. Min was 45%. Lots of 65% as well.

The 45% was in an urban zone, with most of the rest being mountains. I don't know if terrain matters, though I do know there were no enemy AA divisions.

It is possible that I was at some sort of cap with terrain limiting the bonus as well. There were however some uneven numbers like 6x%.

I probably should have tried with 600 planes as well. Because if it is a hard limit like that, then airland battle + strategic destruction would be pretty broken (raises air superiority cap to 100%, 110% w/ Goebbels if there is a terrain penalty).

The bonus is dependent on number of wings, number of planes in the wing, supply, airfield capacity, and doctrines. You can add up to 40% more with the battlefield support air doctrine.

 

[ocelot64]

Okay, I was using AirLand Battle (SP) and Battlefield Support granting me +50% to air superiority, +40% to both ground support and air support mission effiency. Provided no enemy airplanes are in the sector. You get 10% air support bonus per 100 CAS airplanes and the enemy gets -10% penalty to defence/breakthrough per 100 friendly airplanes (air superiority effect. I was using 400 CAS planes in one air sector and got around 40% bonus/penalty. Which was reduced to 20% each, when I deployed 200 CAS planes in 2 air sectors.
No enemy planes were present and no AA in enemy divisions. The AI doesn't seem to build AA in division templates in single player, it seems.