I don't have WoN yet. Does the war at least have different war enthusiasm values? If I must DoW Austria to sink their pirates, am I at least spared having to get 40 warscore before Austria will even begin to consider a white peace?
Privateers Require CB to Attack... WTF?
- Thread starter DerOstkonig
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I've started what amounts to 3 world wars so I could clean out pirates stealing from my trade.
Fighting in Europe, Asia, North and South America, all to sink 10 ships.
I'm normally racking up about 500,000 dead (not my own) over pirates.
I also get to clean out maybe a hundred and a half regular trade ships when I send out my heavy fleets to burn everything not flying my own flag in Northern Europe to the water line.
Sometimes it's good to be hated by the whole world.
Fighting in Europe, Asia, North and South America, all to sink 10 ships.
I'm normally racking up about 500,000 dead (not my own) over pirates.
I also get to clean out maybe a hundred and a half regular trade ships when I send out my heavy fleets to burn everything not flying my own flag in Northern Europe to the water line.
Sometimes it's good to be hated by the whole world.
The real issue here isn't "pirates require CB to attack". The issue is that all trade ships in this game aren't actually trading. They're stealing. Privateers are just another way of stealing, this time in a more antagonistic way, without a merchant, and downstream.
Honestly I could go into a huge post over why trade in this game isn't trade, and how it could have been made trade, but the "trade" expansion has already been released so I hugely doubt my points would be addressed.
Honestly I could go into a huge post over why trade in this game isn't trade, and how it could have been made trade, but the "trade" expansion has already been released so I hugely doubt my points would be addressed.
If it's ridiculous to go to war over... then why go to war over it?
Try to hurt the offender back by privateering their trade nodes instead sounds like an option.
Try to hurt the offender back by privateering their trade nodes instead sounds like an option.
Privateers are exactly no different than regular light ship fleets. Other than the fact they produce a CB and can be used anywhere.
Treat them as you would anyone using trade fleets. You out power them with your own ships. Or goto war and sink them. I have often started wars just to sink trade fleets. Privateers are no different. They add nothing new to the mix.
Treat them as you would anyone using trade fleets. You out power them with your own ships. Or goto war and sink them. I have often started wars just to sink trade fleets. Privateers are no different. They add nothing new to the mix.
Except that with 6 ships they give 30% trade power in Genoa trade node where the sender owns no provinces...
Because 6 ships are stealing 30% of my trade, and I am a trade nation, and I should be able to protect my trade without starting a giant land conflict as if I was trying to take territory from a major power. And I can't "hurt the offender back" as they are a land country who doesn't even rely on trade since theyre already a military superpower.
9 ships of your own would increase your trade power by the same amount...
I don't know why you are arguing how I can get more trade power, I didn't ask how to play a trade nation.
I asked why I should have to start a land invasion of the 3rd biggest country in Europe to stop 6 ships (who don't even fly their flag or belong to their nation...technically) from stealing a disproportionate amount of trade in a node where they have no provinces or political sway.
So, if he instead sent 9 ships on a trade mission and stole the same amount of trade power, no war necessary?
Yep. Which would be a fair challenge since he is not a naval power, and those 9 ships would be at or above half his naval forcelimit.
That way he would actually have to put out effort to get into the trade game, and to impact nations who are actually making a serious effort to dominate trade in the region.
Imagine if he was a player: since he can only field about 20 ships total, he could make all those ships privateers and -without investing in any trade or naval ideas, or without focusing on diplomatic technology- both significantly hamper the trade of players who are focusing purely on trade and using all their resources to dominate trade, while at the same time he could have the biggest army in Europe to deter any chance of his privateers being stopped, and use it to steamroll other nations at the same time.
How is that fair, balanced, or even logical?
Moreover, how does it help trade nations like this "trade" expansion is supposed to?
It's perfectly logical, much more fair than the the current unidirectional flow of trade. Balanced, I'm not sure.
But you're not a trade power. There is no trade in this game. "Trade" in this game is either a way of multiplying your production, if you only collect from trade goods produced in provinces you control, or it's a way of stealing the trade goods of others.
This is kind of misleading, since 9 light ships won't undo the income loss.
Again, if he had sent 9 ships on a trade mission instead of 6 ships on a privateer mission, you'd have loss the same income.
This is complete and utter bull.
Just because you are irked with Paradox for how they represent trade, does not mean there are not "trading powers" in this game. Get over yourself.
And your argument does not convince me of how it is logical to not be able to attack independent commerce raiders committing illegal acts in areas that you claim under your protection (see: definition of Privateer), without declaring a major conflict that will take place on both land and sea.
I think the real question should be, why are you afraid of a war with austria in the first place. They cannot fight. And once you remove Tirol from them, they become a second rate backwater. Without their goldmine austria becomes the european punching bag.
Goto war, sink his boats, take Tirol and Gorz, and never fear austria again.
Goto war, sink his boats, take Tirol and Gorz, and never fear austria again.
When I want advice on how to play my games I will ask, but that's not what this thread is about. Austria was just an example. This could happen with any countries.
How childish. It's not my fault you fail to see the equivalency of trade missions and privateer missions in this game.
Trade is an exchange of goods and/or services. When you increase your trade power in this game, you're not exchanging goods, you're making yourself richer and if anyone else is affected, it's to be made poorer.
Another good spot for piracy is as a Japanese state. The Manchu CoT is pretty rich, what with Ming shoving all it's trade over there, it's close enough for Japan to send ships, it's too far for a Merchant to do much of anything, and if Manchu or Ming want to do anything about your piracy, they're going to have to declare war on all of Japan.
Strike our colors, Mr. Kasuga! :ninja:
As for not being able to fight pirates, obviously the pirates would have enough sense to not be flying the Jolly Rodger when there's warships in sight. That's pretty standard practice for the time period.
Strike our colors, Mr. Kasuga! :ninja:
As for not being able to fight pirates, obviously the pirates would have enough sense to not be flying the Jolly Rodger when there's warships in sight. That's pretty standard practice for the time period.
Dear OP,
Your title is confusing, it should read, "I have to declare war to attack Privateers...WTF?".
Enemy privateers actually provide a CB, not require one.
Patrolling and Privateering are abstracted game concepts. They represent the allocation of resources to "behind-the-scenes" activities. Patrolling increases trade because they are catching smugglers, making sure traders are paying port fees and chasing off pirates resulting in more product going through legit markets.
Privateering represents the shipping that does get caught by pirates.
Your issue with not being able to initiate combat with pirates is based on how the game currently represents them and the incongruency between using fleets to do the abstraction.
A better way of handling patrols and privateering (and probably the way they will be handled in the next version) is putting patrols and privateers into the merchant nodes directly - click on a fleet and "assign to node" would make the fleet disappear and the appropriate ship count increase in a tally box on the merchant node.
This abstraction would be in line with the behind the scene activites that trade is - and takes the focus away from "fleets" and naval action. In times of war, if you wanted to release ships from patrols they would appear back in a port in that zone or similar.
Privateers shouldnt be able to be engaged in battles simply by being the the same zone with a patrol - so removing your concept of them as a battle fleet may help you rethink the whole situation.
Your title is confusing, it should read, "I have to declare war to attack Privateers...WTF?".
Enemy privateers actually provide a CB, not require one.
Patrolling and Privateering are abstracted game concepts. They represent the allocation of resources to "behind-the-scenes" activities. Patrolling increases trade because they are catching smugglers, making sure traders are paying port fees and chasing off pirates resulting in more product going through legit markets.
Privateering represents the shipping that does get caught by pirates.
Your issue with not being able to initiate combat with pirates is based on how the game currently represents them and the incongruency between using fleets to do the abstraction.
A better way of handling patrols and privateering (and probably the way they will be handled in the next version) is putting patrols and privateers into the merchant nodes directly - click on a fleet and "assign to node" would make the fleet disappear and the appropriate ship count increase in a tally box on the merchant node.
This abstraction would be in line with the behind the scene activites that trade is - and takes the focus away from "fleets" and naval action. In times of war, if you wanted to release ships from patrols they would appear back in a port in that zone or similar.
Privateers shouldnt be able to be engaged in battles simply by being the the same zone with a patrol - so removing your concept of them as a battle fleet may help you rethink the whole situation.