Since Vricklund seems happy with our choice, and Sartorial is AWOL, then we'll make our Spokesperson and vice SP official.
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Ah, the dreaded question - It would be too much of an anticlimax if we were to lose official status right before the elections! The best we can do is some regular posting - an active party thread is an effective way of self-promotion. I will try to visit our headquarters a little more frequently - for the party and for the people!
I personally need some time to read up on our socialist brothers and decide later. I believe we are in no immediate hurry but you are right - this must be decided at one time or another.
Much better!
OK, I've made some changes to the education aspect in our manifesto and gave Shiiuga the title of vice-spokesperson.
Vricklund, you're right. We have to keep this thread on the first page of the Eutopia thread. It might help, guys, too, if you add a link to our HQ in your addresses.
RE...Coalition. Let's monitor the situation closely. I think the RD is looking to form a coalition with a rather right-of-centre party in order to get government seats; I'm not sure if this party is willing to sell out quite that way
Vricklund, you're right. We have to keep this thread on the first page of the Eutopia thread. It might help, guys, too, if you add a link to our HQ in your addresses.
RE...Coalition. Let's monitor the situation closely. I think the RD is looking to form a coalition with a rather right-of-centre party in order to get government seats; I'm not sure if this party is willing to sell out quite that way
Excellent!
This means that if Sartorial Tyrant doesnt show up soon, we'll still have enough members to be a party.
It really is up to Josephus though, he's the Spokesperson/founder.
Consider yourself a member, Citizen Prince Trotsky.
This is great news everybody....we're on our way to bigger things. Prince Trotsky, as I tell everyone else who joins our party, consider yourself a member of equal standing. Our Manifesto is open to discussion and change. Welcome aboard.
Regarding our fifth member
Welcome Prince_Trotsky!
Regarding coalitions
My humble opinion is that the RD has some rather extremist views regarding the economy - voicing the concept of "capitalism with a human face"! *snort*
But then again, neither party has anything to gain by bad-mouthing each other in public - not the RD and especially not the ESRP!
The February elections are going to be a completely different affair since more and more parties are attaining official status. I believe that we should continue to have as good relations with the RD as humanly possible, not ruling out our socialist brothers quite yet.
Let us bide our time - wait and see.
Welcome Prince_Trotsky!
Regarding coalitions
My humble opinion is that the RD has some rather extremist views regarding the economy - voicing the concept of "capitalism with a human face"! *snort*
But then again, neither party has anything to gain by bad-mouthing each other in public - not the RD and especially not the ESRP!
The February elections are going to be a completely different affair since more and more parties are attaining official status. I believe that we should continue to have as good relations with the RD as humanly possible, not ruling out our socialist brothers quite yet.
Let us bide our time - wait and see.
Well, I'll give you a strong pat on the back Prince Trotsky...I don't live in Huntington, prefering the capital city myself so I can't vote for you...but we wish you the best of luck.
Hi comrades!
I just subsribed in the list of citizens and the first thing i found was this nice socialist reform party. I'd really like to join!!!
i hope that my radical viewpoints wont be a problem, and also i hope that the ESRP wont be afraid of concerning radical ideas.
I just subsribed in the list of citizens and the first thing i found was this nice socialist reform party. I'd really like to join!!!
i hope that my radical viewpoints wont be a problem, and also i hope that the ESRP wont be afraid of concerning radical ideas.
i'd like the marginal tax rate to be 99%, the curve would have to be adopted. tax rate for every enterprise will have to depend on the number of workers. i advocate a form of democracy in which politicians are permanently deposeable, so that they have to think about what they do, and that democracy doesnt mean choosing your form of despotism for the next 4 years. excessive owning will be forbidden (people may not have more money than they are able to spend, it will be taxed 99% if they have too much).
Also, id like to see the form of punishment called prison to play a minor role. social service is much better - people dont have problems with resocialising anymore then.
i strongly support the legalization of cannabis, because there no serious arguments against it that dont apply for coffee or chocolate too.
ahh.. yes.. another thing, about laws.
there should be something like common sense included in the laws, so that its forbidden for enterprises to use wholes in the law to do stupid things.
i do not support communistic economy system for industry coutries, it is very important for underdeveloped areas, but in industry society flexible market is much more important.
so all those radical ideas are reasonable!
and of course we will have to do a lot of antifascistic things. not that there are nazis here.. but you know.. socialism without antifascism is not really complete
and i would suggest to give our newspaper an other name. i suppose we dont have a lot of workers in the forum, so we will need to aim at other people. socialism is good for everyone not just for workers!!!
also, there is no green party yet, so before one forms we should quickly cover the green people with our program! things like anti-war and recycling and so on.
hmm.. another idea!
we should fight a class-war. a fight against another class.. however you call that in english. it might not be necessary, but its cool to fight one and we will get more votes if we are the ones that fight the most against those modern right neoliberalist ***(insert any insult) hehehe.
so that was it.
friendship!
Also, id like to see the form of punishment called prison to play a minor role. social service is much better - people dont have problems with resocialising anymore then.
i strongly support the legalization of cannabis, because there no serious arguments against it that dont apply for coffee or chocolate too.
ahh.. yes.. another thing, about laws.
there should be something like common sense included in the laws, so that its forbidden for enterprises to use wholes in the law to do stupid things.
i do not support communistic economy system for industry coutries, it is very important for underdeveloped areas, but in industry society flexible market is much more important.
so all those radical ideas are reasonable!
and of course we will have to do a lot of antifascistic things. not that there are nazis here.. but you know.. socialism without antifascism is not really complete
and i would suggest to give our newspaper an other name. i suppose we dont have a lot of workers in the forum, so we will need to aim at other people. socialism is good for everyone not just for workers!!!
also, there is no green party yet, so before one forms we should quickly cover the green people with our program! things like anti-war and recycling and so on.
hmm.. another idea!
we should fight a class-war. a fight against another class.. however you call that in english. it might not be necessary, but its cool to fight one
and we will get more votes if we are the ones that fight the most against those modern right neoliberalist ***(insert any insult) hehehe.so that was it.
friendship!
I advocate the nationalization of major industries such as steel, power, and coal etc. so that businesses can not make silly decisions that will threaten the wealthfare of the nation. I support abortion within the first three months. I support the legalization of all drugs. People have certain freedoms that the state should not have an influences over. Being able to smoke what you want or drink what you want are some of these freedoms. I support a free market economy as capitalism is deeply entrechened into Eutopian society and will be hard to remove if not impossible.
Politicians should not say anything it takes to get elected then only follow the party dogma. They should still listen to the people. The state exist to serve the people not to dominate them. And the taxation on everything is unnecessary. If a person wants ten cars they should be able to own ten cars. They still has to maintain those cars and pay for their gas. But on things should as houses the owner ownership of multiple houses leads to more having to be built and raising the price of a houses which people who need a house will not be able to pay.
Corporations hire many people and by taxing them outrageously you will be force them to move over sees make Eutopia either a third world nation full of negative revolutionary ideas or a backwards agrarian utopia.
And communism is not made for underdeveloped nations its made for developed industrialized nation like Germany, the US, and France of which Eutopia resembled none of these. And by "class war" do you mean the class struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie? If we were to have one that would be the end of Eutopia as we know it. We don't have nearly enough supporters as we would need and their are too many barriers between the people. You have to world the Latin and the English, those break down into language, cultural, and religious barriers. And not to mention you have the Blacks of Eutopia who fall under every barrier.
Eutopia stands broken and a class struggle will only make that divide wider.
Well I like your ideas but I also see why you call them radical.
Politicians should not say anything it takes to get elected then only follow the party dogma. They should still listen to the people. The state exist to serve the people not to dominate them. And the taxation on everything is unnecessary. If a person wants ten cars they should be able to own ten cars. They still has to maintain those cars and pay for their gas. But on things should as houses the owner ownership of multiple houses leads to more having to be built and raising the price of a houses which people who need a house will not be able to pay.
Corporations hire many people and by taxing them outrageously you will be force them to move over sees make Eutopia either a third world nation full of negative revolutionary ideas or a backwards agrarian utopia.
And communism is not made for underdeveloped nations its made for developed industrialized nation like Germany, the US, and France of which Eutopia resembled none of these. And by "class war" do you mean the class struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie? If we were to have one that would be the end of Eutopia as we know it. We don't have nearly enough supporters as we would need and their are too many barriers between the people. You have to world the Latin and the English, those break down into language, cultural, and religious barriers. And not to mention you have the Blacks of Eutopia who fall under every barrier.
Eutopia stands broken and a class struggle will only make that divide wider.
Well I like your ideas but I also see why you call them radical.
Welcome aboard Weyoun, if you're interested. I like your idea about getting an environmental message out. Maybe you can handle that for us.
As for our newspaper, I think we'll stick the the Worker for now.
OOC: While we may not have a lot of "workers" in the forum, technicallly we are trying to appeal to the Eutopian Working Class".
As for our newspaper, I think we'll stick the the Worker for now.
OOC: While we may not have a lot of "workers" in the forum, technicallly we are trying to appeal to the Eutopian Working Class".
I also agree with the Environmental message. However, I have reserrvations with a couple of your ideas. Reduction of Prisons? What about murderers, child abusers, rapists? Would you be comfortable to have them roaming the streets? I certainly would not. Don't get me wrong, I am a socialist, yes, but I am also a realist.
Another things is your policy on cannabis, scientifically it has been provwn to be worse than caffiene and I'm inclined to believe that. Whil we're on the subject, I am very anti-smoking, I believe that should also be banned. Thoughts?
Another things is your policy on cannabis, scientifically it has been provwn to be worse than caffiene and I'm inclined to believe that. Whil we're on the subject, I am very anti-smoking, I believe that should also be banned. Thoughts?
is there an Eutopian working class that we can get votes from? i got the impression that most people here are soldiers, journalists or politicians...
a good name for the newspaper would be "the stalinist beobachter" and we should check that our newspaper is the only legal one in Eutopia. (just joking)
About the prisons: We are of course trying to have a mentally healthy society (so about the contrary of what is happening in america now, politicians and journalists spread out fear and so on). in this mentally healthy society there will be *very little* murderers rapers and child abusers, unforunately they will have to go to prison. but theoretically, prison is not a way to solve problems, just to stop them getting worse (letting someone kill more people) and its a loss to the society (one tax payer less.. hehehe) and he will have much worse chances in the rest of his life.
as long as we dont have a mentally sane society we have to start changes about the prisons slowly. we should have the number crimes that lead to imprisonment very low anyways. social work is much more senseful.
Also, i heard about a special prison in spain where the imprisoners life in some kind of village, surrounded by a fance and guards, and within this village they have jobs, a social life and even leisure activities. there are a lot of psychologists and so on who help them to learn to resocialise and get sane. so i'd like to see at least one of those prisons in eutopia.
I personally dont think that a smoking ban is possible because too many people smoke. but we can definitely start anti-smoking advertisement campaigns and forbid any form of advertisement for tabacco. i dont think that we should make cigarettes more expensive, because this would be a measure against our own people and, as far as i know, most smokers know that they should smoke less or stop anyways. medicaments that cure tabbacco addiction should be free or very cheap.
about cannabis: firstly it is important to have a permanent pro-contra cannabis debate with high niveau going, because with this we can interest a lot of people for our party and can get the image of a serious party, just because we know how to treat with reports of experts and know how to discuss complicated things and so on. maybe we should start an extra thread about that to get more people in our party. i personally do support the legalization, and i suppose you all will agree that at least something will have to be changed about the situation. if we reach legalization, advertising for cannabis should be forbidden.
state industry:
i agree with prince_trotsky. maybe we could handle this in a (more or less - hopefully less) capitalist system if the state owns at least 51% of the stocks of those enterprises.
abortion is a right that nobody should be able to restrict. we must fight against discrimination of women who do abortion.
why do you support legalization of all drugs? its true that people should have freedom to do what they want, but unfortunately people are blinded by advertisements (thats why we have to forbid tabbacco advertisements) or they are blinded by the drugs mafia. we do have to protect people from doing terrible things, and i suppose LSD or kokain are terrible things. anti-hard drug campaigns are definitely necessary, concentrated to specific areas.
I do not think that anybody should be allowed to own 10 cars while other people are starving. correct me if i am wrong, but isnt exactly that what social economy programs are against?
can we agree on supporting a social market economy instead of a free market economy?
Also, i am not in favour of taxing the enterprises outrageously. just the marginal rate should be 99%, that will never be reached unless a 10-people enterprise makes a billion a year, and i think it is fair that under such conditions the enterprise is forced to take more employers to avoid those high tax rates, or is forced to give away its surplus money.
i believe the communism that was designed for the industrial countries is not the communistic economy system of soviet union. we do not need economy plans to reach the standard production i suppose...?
you might be right about the class war. so if we cant do that, we should at least strongly hate the neoliberal right wing *** hehehe
There might be an other advantage for us: We are more or less the only left party, while the right is not united.
soon we will be the strongest party!!!
(when will be the next elections?)
finally, the program about the environment:
Our initial point is that the nature is there for the human, but we have to be wise and not use it excessive because a radical change of the nature that will be caused by an unwise use will have to lead to worse conditions for the human. the situation of nowadays is very alarming. if it goes on like that, devasting events will follow. But it can be so easy to solve environmental problems!!! there are countries that get more than 70% of their energy from recycleable sources. also, if all those oil lobbies or nuclear lobbies wouldnt block new inventions that bring better and more environmental technologies, situation can be made much better quite easily.
i'll formulate a longer environmental program if you want to..
so we will have to fight against the warmonging oil lobby
an idea for the class war maybe?
so i have an other question: why does the libertarian party have so much more replies in their thread? We dont even have more than 4 pages.. that has to be changed too!!! we will have to be the most viewed thread.
so, that was it
EL PUEBLO UNIDO JAMAS SERAS VENCIDO!
friendship!!!!
a good name for the newspaper would be "the stalinist beobachter" and we should check that our newspaper is the only legal one in Eutopia.
(just joking)About the prisons: We are of course trying to have a mentally healthy society (so about the contrary of what is happening in america now, politicians and journalists spread out fear and so on). in this mentally healthy society there will be *very little* murderers rapers and child abusers, unforunately they will have to go to prison. but theoretically, prison is not a way to solve problems, just to stop them getting worse (letting someone kill more people) and its a loss to the society (one tax payer less.. hehehe) and he will have much worse chances in the rest of his life.
as long as we dont have a mentally sane society we have to start changes about the prisons slowly. we should have the number crimes that lead to imprisonment very low anyways. social work is much more senseful.
Also, i heard about a special prison in spain where the imprisoners life in some kind of village, surrounded by a fance and guards, and within this village they have jobs, a social life and even leisure activities. there are a lot of psychologists and so on who help them to learn to resocialise and get sane. so i'd like to see at least one of those prisons in eutopia.
I personally dont think that a smoking ban is possible because too many people smoke. but we can definitely start anti-smoking advertisement campaigns and forbid any form of advertisement for tabacco. i dont think that we should make cigarettes more expensive, because this would be a measure against our own people and, as far as i know, most smokers know that they should smoke less or stop anyways. medicaments that cure tabbacco addiction should be free or very cheap.
about cannabis: firstly it is important to have a permanent pro-contra cannabis debate with high niveau going, because with this we can interest a lot of people for our party and can get the image of a serious party, just because we know how to treat with reports of experts and know how to discuss complicated things and so on. maybe we should start an extra thread about that to get more people in our party. i personally do support the legalization, and i suppose you all will agree that at least something will have to be changed about the situation. if we reach legalization, advertising for cannabis should be forbidden.
state industry:
i agree with prince_trotsky. maybe we could handle this in a (more or less - hopefully less
) capitalist system if the state owns at least 51% of the stocks of those enterprises.abortion is a right that nobody should be able to restrict. we must fight against discrimination of women who do abortion.
why do you support legalization of all drugs? its true that people should have freedom to do what they want, but unfortunately people are blinded by advertisements (thats why we have to forbid tabbacco advertisements) or they are blinded by the drugs mafia. we do have to protect people from doing terrible things, and i suppose LSD or kokain are terrible things. anti-hard drug campaigns are definitely necessary, concentrated to specific areas.
I do not think that anybody should be allowed to own 10 cars while other people are starving. correct me if i am wrong, but isnt exactly that what social economy programs are against?
can we agree on supporting a social market economy instead of a free market economy?
Also, i am not in favour of taxing the enterprises outrageously. just the marginal rate should be 99%, that will never be reached unless a 10-people enterprise makes a billion a year, and i think it is fair that under such conditions the enterprise is forced to take more employers to avoid those high tax rates, or is forced to give away its surplus money.
i believe the communism that was designed for the industrial countries is not the communistic economy system of soviet union. we do not need economy plans to reach the standard production i suppose...?
you might be right about the class war. so if we cant do that, we should at least strongly hate the neoliberal right wing ***
heheheThere might be an other advantage for us: We are more or less the only left party, while the right is not united.
soon we will be the strongest party!!!
(when will be the next elections?)
finally, the program about the environment:
Our initial point is that the nature is there for the human, but we have to be wise and not use it excessive because a radical change of the nature that will be caused by an unwise use will have to lead to worse conditions for the human. the situation of nowadays is very alarming. if it goes on like that, devasting events will follow. But it can be so easy to solve environmental problems!!! there are countries that get more than 70% of their energy from recycleable sources. also, if all those oil lobbies or nuclear lobbies wouldnt block new inventions that bring better and more environmental technologies, situation can be made much better quite easily.
i'll formulate a longer environmental program if you want to..
so we will have to fight against the warmonging oil lobby
an idea for the class war maybe?
so i have an other question: why does the libertarian party have so much more replies in their thread? We dont even have more than 4 pages.. that has to be changed too!!! we will have to be the most viewed thread.
so, that was it
EL PUEBLO UNIDO JAMAS SERAS VENCIDO!
friendship!!!!
Weyoun...good to have some debate going. Your post was long and I don't have the time to go over all of it. However, I see this as a democratic party and all opinion will be tolerated.
Just a few points. First off this is a role-playing game and as such the newspaper is aimed at a ficticious group of workers. Yes, most people here aren't "workers" as such; but most people here belong to one party or another and there's no point in campaigning to them.
On economics I am totally for state-control of most industries. I think we can all agree on a state-operated market economy; in fact I believe our manifesto says as much.
Abortion, I believe is a woman's choice.
YOu say:
>>I do not think that anybody should be allowed to own 10 cars while other people are starving. correct me if i am wrong, but isnt exactly that what social economy programs are against? <<
I absolutely agree. And this is something our party strongly believes. To this extent, I also believe in progressive taxation. That is the proportion of taxation gets higher the more a person makes. But more than income taxes, there are other ways of taxation we should go after. Wealth taxes. (a heavy taxation on private investments, inheritance taxes) Luxury taxes on boats, sports cars etc. And more to the point of our program, heavy corporate taxes.
Strongly agree with you on the environmental issue.
The recent spate of discussion brings up an issue. OUr manifesto. Obviously our manifesto was created by myself and mostly Sartorial Tyrant who seems to have gone awol (I believe he was kidnapped by some right wing nuts). Now that we have more people we may need to change some things. So what we need first of all is some kind of policy in place by which we can make changes to our manifesto. Any ideas. ?
Keep up the work, Comrades.
Just a few points. First off this is a role-playing game and as such the newspaper is aimed at a ficticious group of workers. Yes, most people here aren't "workers" as such; but most people here belong to one party or another and there's no point in campaigning to them.
On economics I am totally for state-control of most industries. I think we can all agree on a state-operated market economy; in fact I believe our manifesto says as much.
Abortion, I believe is a woman's choice.
YOu say:
>>I do not think that anybody should be allowed to own 10 cars while other people are starving. correct me if i am wrong, but isnt exactly that what social economy programs are against? <<
I absolutely agree. And this is something our party strongly believes. To this extent, I also believe in progressive taxation. That is the proportion of taxation gets higher the more a person makes. But more than income taxes, there are other ways of taxation we should go after. Wealth taxes. (a heavy taxation on private investments, inheritance taxes) Luxury taxes on boats, sports cars etc. And more to the point of our program, heavy corporate taxes.
Strongly agree with you on the environmental issue.
The recent spate of discussion brings up an issue. OUr manifesto. Obviously our manifesto was created by myself and mostly Sartorial Tyrant who seems to have gone awol (I believe he was kidnapped by some right wing nuts). Now that we have more people we may need to change some things. So what we need first of all is some kind of policy in place by which we can make changes to our manifesto. Any ideas. ?
Keep up the work, Comrades.
i'd suggest that everyone can propose paragraphs for our manifesto that will then be discussed (if necessary) and decided unless anybody is against it.
I just got an other idea:
if we have the necessary majority we could make Eutopia a coastal or even landlocked country, then we wouldnt need the expensive navy. also, we could do easier trade with bordering nations if we had some. and if we were landlocked we can better defend from attacks from the USA if they decide to regard us as rogue power (unless our bordering nations are traitors.. but hey.. you all know the domino-effect)
There is also something i'd like to say about the state-operated market economy. In a quotation that i read about the difference between DDR and BRD - it said "DDR is mint flavour toothpaste and BRD is strawberry flavour toothpaste"
it means like having no good choice what to buy in DDR, while in BRD you can have everything you want and even more than that.
Eutopia is a rich country, we can afford having a variety of things to buy. But especially about this issue, a state-regulated market will not react quick enough to cover the people's demands as fast as they appear and dissapear. of course, we dont have to make the change of fashion as quick as possible to make more money, but fashion tends to go quite fast even without that. Anyway fashion isnt the only factor that makes people want to have the possibility to choose what to buy. Also, i think there are different ways to regulate the market other than ful state control of largest companies, like laws, or maybe the possibility for the government (us ) to give orders to the industry... just anything that makes clear that the state has more to say than the industry (unlike it is in our world sometimes ).
I just got an other idea:
if we have the necessary majority we could make Eutopia a coastal or even landlocked country, then we wouldnt need the expensive navy. also, we could do easier trade with bordering nations if we had some. and if we were landlocked we can better defend from attacks from the USA if they decide to regard us as rogue power (unless our bordering nations are traitors.. but hey.. you all know the domino-effect)
There is also something i'd like to say about the state-operated market economy. In a quotation that i read about the difference between DDR and BRD - it said "DDR is mint flavour toothpaste and BRD is strawberry flavour toothpaste"
it means like having no good choice what to buy in DDR, while in BRD you can have everything you want and even more than that.
Eutopia is a rich country, we can afford having a variety of things to buy. But especially about this issue, a state-regulated market will not react quick enough to cover the people's demands as fast as they appear and dissapear. of course, we dont have to make the change of fashion as quick as possible to make more money, but fashion tends to go quite fast even without that. Anyway fashion isnt the only factor that makes people want to have the possibility to choose what to buy. Also, i think there are different ways to regulate the market other than ful state control of largest companies, like laws, or maybe the possibility for the government (us
) to give orders to the industry... just anything that makes clear that the state has more to say than the industry (unlike it is in our world sometimes ).
I'd really like to start a campaign against one of the other parties, like the libertarian party. after all we have to fight for a better election result and bring more people in the party! i'd start a new thred called 'Weyouns animadversion on the Libertarian party' and have a political discussion there. Is that ok?
An other question, what is our position concerning gun ownership? i am in favour of the European system rather than the American one.
PS - thank you for adding me to the party member list
An other question, what is our position concerning gun ownership? i am in favour of the European system rather than the American one.
PS - thank you for adding me to the party member list