Thank you, it's good to see another rational head is in the MP. Oh, and call me John. It's like my cousin always said "If I wanted everyone to call me mister, I'd change my name to mister!"
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Dear Sirs,
Some unexpected family business needs to be resolved, so I will be out of the loop for around two weeks. I will try to maintain some sort of involvement in the MRC, but due to the nature of this business (a death in the family followed by some rather shady dealings with the will... not what we needed at all, but there you go) most of my time will be taken up with this family crisis. I know you will understand, and I shall be back as soon as possible.
[OOC: EXAMS.
]
Some unexpected family business needs to be resolved, so I will be out of the loop for around two weeks. I will try to maintain some sort of involvement in the MRC, but due to the nature of this business (a death in the family followed by some rather shady dealings with the will... not what we needed at all, but there you go) most of my time will be taken up with this family crisis. I know you will understand, and I shall be back as soon as possible.
[OOC: EXAMS.
]
Welcome Mr. Von Streusser! Is it Michel? Michael?
Lawrence - such absences are regrettable but easily understood. We wish you well through this trying (OOC:) time.
Lawrence - such absences are regrettable but easily understood. We wish you well through this trying (OOC:
) time.
How does this sound?
EUTOPIAN ANTI-TERRORIST BILL
By Hartwell, Langley, Morgan, and Tulp
Article I
Creation of Counter-Revolutionary Operations Group
(Consisting of 4 officers [human players] and 20-30 soldiers)
1. Adequate funding for sophisticated intelligence gathering equipment and high tech arms as used by most counter terrorism units.
2. CROG to be charged with finding and bringing to justice members of the revolution and other terrorists in Eutopia.
3. Wide powers including; right to plant bugs on persons, to tap phones, to run surveillance on suspicious persons, to arrest persons suspected of terrorist activities or suspected of being involved in the planning of such activities or being involved with persons involved in terrorist activities. The power to arrest and hold persons without laying charges for up to 24 hours.
4. To be independent of other military units and would liaise with police forces, be under overall command of the President and responsible to the parliament.
[OOC: All actions from point 3 to be approved by gm in every case before being implemented.]
Article II
Foundation of National Department of Investigation
A National Department of Investigation will be created under the Ministry of Defense (as a civilian organization) with the purpose of identifying and stopping terrorist activities inside the nation of EUtopia. The Department’s goals:
-To arrest figures known to be or suspected beyond reasonable doubt to be terrorist leaders
-To stop suspected terrorist plots before they start
-To investigate acts of terrorism which do occur
-To identify organizations or businesses which support terrorism and to freeze these organizations’ money-flow
-To perform background checks on immigrants to the country
This department will have power to conduct espionage activities on suspects if the suspicion is sufficiently strong.
Article III
Formation of EUtopian Special Anti-Terrorist Unit
1. The purpose of the ESATU is to protect the Nation of Eutopia against any terrorist activities.
2. The ESATU is directly under the Join chief of Staffs, the Minister of Defense and International Affairs (MDIA) and the President of the Nation of EUtopia.
3. The ESATU will be composed out of soldiers from: the Marines, the Mountain Rangers and the Airborne divisions.
4. If deployed in the Nation of EUtopia soldiers of the ESATU will have the same rights as the police.
5. Soldiers of the ESATU can only be ordered by a superior officer in the EUtopian Military if the communications with officers of the ESATU and the Joint Staff is broken.
6. The ESATU will officially be a part of the EUtopian Army but the members of the ESATU will hold their rank in their old branches.
7. If asked for the names and other information of the members of the ESATU can be held secret to protect the members of the ESATU.
8. To protect the members of the ESATU they have the right to have their side-arm present in the homes.
9. To protect the members of the ESATU they have the right not to make themselves known in any way and have the right to turn down the order of to be heard by the parliament, government or any court unless their names are kept secret.
Article IV
Judicial Consequences of Terrorist Actions
1. Any act of terror that results in the death of an innocent person shall automatically carry a death sentence.
2. Any act of terror that could have reasonably resulted in the death of an innocent person, shall automatically carry a life sentence in a super maximum security prison.
3. Any other act of terror, including but not limited to massive destruction of property, bomb threats, death threats, and kidnapping shall be punishable by no less than 20 years in jail and no more than life in prison in a super maximum security prison.
4. Knowingly supporting or assisting terrorist operations or organizations by providing any of the following: information, financial support, shelter, cover, training, equipment, protection, or any other assistance shall be punishable by no less than 10 years in jail. In cases that result in the death of an innocent, the death penalty may be enacted.
EUTOPIAN ANTI-TERRORIST BILL
By Hartwell, Langley, Morgan, and Tulp
Article I
Creation of Counter-Revolutionary Operations Group
(Consisting of 4 officers [human players] and 20-30 soldiers)
1. Adequate funding for sophisticated intelligence gathering equipment and high tech arms as used by most counter terrorism units.
2. CROG to be charged with finding and bringing to justice members of the revolution and other terrorists in Eutopia.
3. Wide powers including; right to plant bugs on persons, to tap phones, to run surveillance on suspicious persons, to arrest persons suspected of terrorist activities or suspected of being involved in the planning of such activities or being involved with persons involved in terrorist activities. The power to arrest and hold persons without laying charges for up to 24 hours.
4. To be independent of other military units and would liaise with police forces, be under overall command of the President and responsible to the parliament.
[OOC: All actions from point 3 to be approved by gm in every case before being implemented.]
Article II
Foundation of National Department of Investigation
A National Department of Investigation will be created under the Ministry of Defense (as a civilian organization) with the purpose of identifying and stopping terrorist activities inside the nation of EUtopia. The Department’s goals:
-To arrest figures known to be or suspected beyond reasonable doubt to be terrorist leaders
-To stop suspected terrorist plots before they start
-To investigate acts of terrorism which do occur
-To identify organizations or businesses which support terrorism and to freeze these organizations’ money-flow
-To perform background checks on immigrants to the country
This department will have power to conduct espionage activities on suspects if the suspicion is sufficiently strong.
Article III
Formation of EUtopian Special Anti-Terrorist Unit
1. The purpose of the ESATU is to protect the Nation of Eutopia against any terrorist activities.
2. The ESATU is directly under the Join chief of Staffs, the Minister of Defense and International Affairs (MDIA) and the President of the Nation of EUtopia.
3. The ESATU will be composed out of soldiers from: the Marines, the Mountain Rangers and the Airborne divisions.
4. If deployed in the Nation of EUtopia soldiers of the ESATU will have the same rights as the police.
5. Soldiers of the ESATU can only be ordered by a superior officer in the EUtopian Military if the communications with officers of the ESATU and the Joint Staff is broken.
6. The ESATU will officially be a part of the EUtopian Army but the members of the ESATU will hold their rank in their old branches.
7. If asked for the names and other information of the members of the ESATU can be held secret to protect the members of the ESATU.
8. To protect the members of the ESATU they have the right to have their side-arm present in the homes.
9. To protect the members of the ESATU they have the right not to make themselves known in any way and have the right to turn down the order of to be heard by the parliament, government or any court unless their names are kept secret.
Article IV
Judicial Consequences of Terrorist Actions
1. Any act of terror that results in the death of an innocent person shall automatically carry a death sentence.
2. Any act of terror that could have reasonably resulted in the death of an innocent person, shall automatically carry a life sentence in a super maximum security prison.
3. Any other act of terror, including but not limited to massive destruction of property, bomb threats, death threats, and kidnapping shall be punishable by no less than 20 years in jail and no more than life in prison in a super maximum security prison.
4. Knowingly supporting or assisting terrorist operations or organizations by providing any of the following: information, financial support, shelter, cover, training, equipment, protection, or any other assistance shall be punishable by no less than 10 years in jail. In cases that result in the death of an innocent, the death penalty may be enacted.
It's good to see everyone working so hard. I intend to be back here full-time around the first of June. Good Luck.
Let's try to get the monarchy banned this term, as I don't think we will ever get this opportunity again.
Let's try to get the monarchy banned this term, as I don't think we will ever get this opportunity again.
Ummm, don't the organizations in I, II, and III pretty much do the same thing but from different offices? Maybe not II, but I'm pretty sure I & III were just two different versions of the same idea.
With this we would have two different military units (one that was involved in regular military actions, one that did counter-intelligence) and one civilian unit (that did counter intelligence).
It seems to me that you could have two different anti-terrorist organizations, once civilian and one military, but three seems a bit much. Could you look at somehow combining their duties or their responsibilites somehow?
Otherwise, I like how you put everything together.
Oh, one other thing - twenty years (MINIMUM!)in prison for calling in a bomb threat? Maybe you need to distinguish between real bombs and hoaxes. Otherwise our prisons will fool of kids trying to get out of exams!
If you look at the discussions in our communication office, I think we talked Langley into dropping this a bit.Great work! Thanks for taking the initative on this.
Looking forward to your return. I think by the time the elections roll around we should be in very good shape with our new, and very active, membership!
It's Michael. And please, just call me that...I agree with John about names. Mr. von Streusser is my father.
And I'm certainly not a Michel! My people come from Streusse (pronounced STROY-sse), hence the name. It's a small village near Kassel in the Hesse region of northwest Germany. Closer to Holland than France. Lovely this time of year, wish I could dig up the time to go see it.
Anyway, I like this anti-terrorist bill, I think it's very well written. And perhaps having a 20 year sentence on bomb threats will force those high school kids to come up with something a little more creative? The flower of our youth should not be falling back on such old tricks...
While I like the anti-terrorist bill, I am wondering if we have any current gun control legislation out. Just a standard civilian gun control bill, not necessarily terrorism-related. Such a thing being bandied about?
And I'm certainly not a Michel!
My people come from Streusse (pronounced STROY-sse), hence the name. It's a small village near Kassel in the Hesse region of northwest Germany. Closer to Holland than France. Lovely this time of year, wish I could dig up the time to go see it.Anyway, I like this anti-terrorist bill, I think it's very well written. And perhaps having a 20 year sentence on bomb threats will force those high school kids to come up with something a little more creative? The flower of our youth should not be falling back on such old tricks...
While I like the anti-terrorist bill, I am wondering if we have any current gun control legislation out. Just a standard civilian gun control bill, not necessarily terrorism-related. Such a thing being bandied about?
Jack, you seem to have dug up all the counter-terrorist legislative articles ever suggested. It's great to have them in plain view.
It's clear there is a lot of overlap. I intend to make sure that overlap is kept at a minimum.
I definitly want to have information processed centraly, meaning that all the information gathered by various sources and agencies all end up at the same spot. Central processing will also handle information distribution.
I really like many of the operational directives included in the ESATU proposal and I intend to keep many of them, though I'm going to find another adjective.
It's clear there is a lot of overlap. I intend to make sure that overlap is kept at a minimum.
I definitly want to have information processed centraly, meaning that all the information gathered by various sources and agencies all end up at the same spot. Central processing will also handle information distribution.
I really like many of the operational directives included in the ESATU proposal and I intend to keep many of them, though I'm going to find another adjective.
Right, I'm afraid I have to lodge a complaint about certain comments in the MRC:
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=1632794#post1632794
Check the last few posts on that page talking about "lazy politicians". I think a few generals need to be taught where power ultimately lies in a liberal democracy.
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=1632794#post1632794
Check the last few posts on that page talking about "lazy politicians". I think a few generals need to be taught where power ultimately lies in a liberal democracy.
Though in their defence, the military has been waiting for a while on what the broader military strategy should be so that they can execute it. They are waiting for orders.
Maybe we should discuss this at the CPR quickly and then send the results to the MRC.
Actually, I already HAD, or at least I had tried to.
If you go back through notes from recent CPR meetings I have tried to give them a little more direction. It may be that Gen. Hartwell and others are not able to attend the CPR meetings or may have missed these.
I know John is busy with his presidential duties, but if he had the chance to review the MRC discussion in the policy committee, maybe he (or even Robert or Lawrence) could take these arguments to the MRC.
We can't sit back and let them pass the buck, avoiding any responsibility. We need very specific recommendations from them and they are pursuing all sorts of other agendas, mostly civilian-bashing.
With diplomatic skills like that it's no wonder they are still using flint-lock muskets!
If you go back through notes from recent CPR meetings I have tried to give them a little more direction. It may be that Gen. Hartwell and others are not able to attend the CPR meetings or may have missed these.
I know John is busy with his presidential duties, but if he had the chance to review the MRC discussion in the policy committee, maybe he (or even Robert or Lawrence) could take these arguments to the MRC.
We can't sit back and let them pass the buck, avoiding any responsibility. We need very specific recommendations from them and they are pursuing all sorts of other agendas, mostly civilian-bashing.
With diplomatic skills like that it's no wonder they are still using flint-lock muskets!
I is a military version of II. III goes into effect AFTER a terrorist attack, as opposed to the other two, which are working BEFORE an attack to PREVENT an attack.
The JCS's appear to be very uncooperative. All they have done lately is make negative comments about politicians and pretend to run the world. While threatening their jobs would seem extreme (I can't replace them directly, but if Hartwell wouldn't, I could find an MDIA who would) they are ultimately answering to politicians, and should at least treat everyone like human beings. I will take a look at the CPR discussions and do my best to maintain order in the MRC. Also, since no-one has objected to my idea on security and arms announcements (I asked Minister Josephus and VP Fitzpatrick, Josephus gives his support, Fitzpatrick has yet to answer) I intend to go ahead with it, probably tomorrow or the day after.
As a member of the MRC myself, I've been watching it with a great deal of interest. What I've noticed so far in terms of progress is:
One of our minesweepers has a new name.
That's really about it. After that it's been 16 or so pages in the minutes of pipe dreams and bickering. I think if any progress is to be made, the military folk must be nailed down into a strict scenario. Something like this:
1. You have 6 billion ducats with which to purchase or upgrade equipment.
2. Your primary concern is to be the navy, and specifically naval defense of the island. After that, air defense, and then a ground defense of the island consisting of a professional army.
3. The navy must be capable of intercepting and destroying any hostile capital ship, carrier, submarine, or transport that may threaten our island.
4. The air force must be capable of intercepting and destroying any aircraft that threaten our island; bomber, figher, stealth technology, helicopter, or missile.
5. The army must be rugged, professional, and highly mobile to make up for what will probably have to be small size.
6. We are not concerned with projecting power independently. We may want enough manpower to be able to commit forces to international peacekeeping operations, but not to independently attack another country. So we don't need carriers of any kind, including helo, marines, or corresponding support ships. Nor do we need long range heavy bombers unless they can be used in a defensive capacity.
I've found that military types tend to work best when put in such a box...I think it's a result of all the training. And while this may step on a toe or two, if we want the MRC to get anything done before the end of the world, such a strict and precise proposal (or an even stricter one) may be necessary. I look forward to your thoughts on this gentlemen.
Oh, also, John...do you know who I could talk to to see about getting Eutopia a workshare in the Viking project? It's a nuclear submarine development project, and I think we would do well by joining. Besides, my company has nothing better to do than R&D at the moment, for obvious reasons...
One of our minesweepers has a new name.
That's really about it. After that it's been 16 or so pages in the minutes of pipe dreams and bickering. I think if any progress is to be made, the military folk must be nailed down into a strict scenario. Something like this:
1. You have 6 billion ducats with which to purchase or upgrade equipment.
2. Your primary concern is to be the navy, and specifically naval defense of the island. After that, air defense, and then a ground defense of the island consisting of a professional army.
3. The navy must be capable of intercepting and destroying any hostile capital ship, carrier, submarine, or transport that may threaten our island.
4. The air force must be capable of intercepting and destroying any aircraft that threaten our island; bomber, figher, stealth technology, helicopter, or missile.
5. The army must be rugged, professional, and highly mobile to make up for what will probably have to be small size.
6. We are not concerned with projecting power independently. We may want enough manpower to be able to commit forces to international peacekeeping operations, but not to independently attack another country. So we don't need carriers of any kind, including helo, marines, or corresponding support ships. Nor do we need long range heavy bombers unless they can be used in a defensive capacity.
I've found that military types tend to work best when put in such a box...I think it's a result of all the training. And while this may step on a toe or two, if we want the MRC to get anything done before the end of the world, such a strict and precise proposal (or an even stricter one) may be necessary. I look forward to your thoughts on this gentlemen.
Oh, also, John...do you know who I could talk to to see about getting Eutopia a workshare in the Viking project? It's a nuclear submarine development project, and I think we would do well by joining. Besides, my company has nothing better to do than R&D at the moment, for obvious reasons...
Michael, I'm not so sure who you could ask. Maybe bring this up in the government meeting. I realize you aren't officially in government, but I'm sure no-one will have a problem with it, and somebody there will probably know.
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I'll do what I can to help in the MRC. I have a limited capacity as I'm just an arms contractor (a means to an end in most members of the commission's eyes) so I can't do much, but I'll try.
A couple of things...
1) Private arms control: I agree with this idea in principal but there's one problem - the groups we are most concerned about are operating illegally and won't participate in this. Do you think the Revolutionary Order will submit an accounting of their weapons? This would only apply to the law abiding citizens and would give enemies of the government detailed information about their opposition.
Remember, some of these groups are working hard to protect us from those who operate outside the scope of the law. Think what would have happened had they succeeded in bombing the French Embassy!
Maybe if you made the results of the arms count competely confidential, that would alert us to anything extreme without revealing too much to revolutionaries or terrorists. Or maybe you could simply ban certain weapons, or the concentration of too much weaponry (caches of automatic weapons, tanks, etc.) such that it didn't matter if groups accurately reported their weapons or not, only if they were caught with more than they were supposed to have. Maybe that would work, I'm not sure. Just brainstorming.
I also wonder if you would need parliament's approval to do this. This might be outside your constitutional powers as president.
However, we have enough members of parliament to introduce the legislation, and I would be happy to invite you to parliament so that you could present the idea yourself.
2) The MRC: I've come to the conclusion that it might be time for drastic action. The president called for the commission to be formed and if it is not doing what he wants he can simply terminate it by executive order. I think we, as The Moderate Party, can produce our own recommendations based on the wealth of expertise we have between Michael, Robert, Lawrence, and the President (that's three of the committee members right there). We can develop our own plan, bring it to our CPR allies, and then introduce it in Parliament. This might be fare more effective and a better use of our time. Remember, parliament ends a week before the end of the presidential term, in terms of calling the last vote, so our time is limited.
3) Crises: The MHA has just become ground zero for overwork. With the native crisis, the conclusion of the Patric 123 case, anti-terrorism efforts, the start of the French trial, and the business started by Yuber, Timothy has a lot on his plate. Maybe we can put some of the smaller projects, the unionization of the longshoremen, for example into METI? Timothy, let us know if there's anything we can do to help.
1) Private arms control: I agree with this idea in principal but there's one problem - the groups we are most concerned about are operating illegally and won't participate in this.
Do you think the Revolutionary Order will submit an accounting of their weapons? This would only apply to the law abiding citizens and would give enemies of the government detailed information about their opposition.Remember, some of these groups are working hard to protect us from those who operate outside the scope of the law. Think what would have happened had they succeeded in bombing the French Embassy!
Maybe if you made the results of the arms count competely confidential, that would alert us to anything extreme without revealing too much to revolutionaries or terrorists. Or maybe you could simply ban certain weapons, or the concentration of too much weaponry (caches of automatic weapons, tanks, etc.) such that it didn't matter if groups accurately reported their weapons or not, only if they were caught with more than they were supposed to have. Maybe that would work, I'm not sure. Just brainstorming.
I also wonder if you would need parliament's approval to do this. This might be outside your constitutional powers as president.
However, we have enough members of parliament to introduce the legislation, and I would be happy to invite you to parliament so that you could present the idea yourself.
2) The MRC: I've come to the conclusion that it might be time for drastic action. The president called for the commission to be formed and if it is not doing what he wants he can simply terminate it by executive order. I think we, as The Moderate Party, can produce our own recommendations based on the wealth of expertise we have between Michael, Robert, Lawrence, and the President (that's three of the committee members right there). We can develop our own plan, bring it to our CPR allies, and then introduce it in Parliament. This might be fare more effective and a better use of our time. Remember, parliament ends a week before the end of the presidential term, in terms of calling the last vote, so our time is limited.
3) Crises: The MHA has just become ground zero for overwork. With the native crisis, the conclusion of the Patric 123 case, anti-terrorism efforts, the start of the French trial, and the business started by Yuber, Timothy has a lot on his plate. Maybe we can put some of the smaller projects, the unionization of the longshoremen, for example into METI? Timothy, let us know if there's anything we can do to help.
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