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unmerged(4130)

impatient compromiser
May 30, 2001
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I'd like to tell all of you that I have been appointed Deputy Minister of International Affairs by Mr. Hartwell. This means I'm basically in charge of foreign policy in the government. Wish me luck :) Jack, phone me if you need anything specific.

'll not go into the issue of speakership but I hope we do have a negotiator while Jaack is away. If we don't Yuber or Timothy should take over.
 

unmerged(4271)

General
Jun 6, 2001
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(Arriving at Eutopianmoderateparty.com)

Roger - Thank you for your e-mail (OOC: Best way I knew to get your message in France!). I will be sending over some observations from my visit so far upon which I would appreciate any opinion.

As far as negotiating, I have rec'd messages from the RD in support of Mr. Fox, but nothing from any other party. I don't know how much open negotiation there will be, but I would presume we would support Fox over the CRE candidate. If there's a 3rd candidate, someone please keep me in the loop.


Timothy - if you think we need a party position on this (Speakership), feel free to take over any negotiations. Generally I usually check with Fitzpatrick (Silent Eagle), Josephus, Langley (Craig Ashley) and Lundgren.


John - Some people may be waiting on your VP nomination to determine their vote for speaker. If you intend on delaying this nomination, you may wish to announce this ahead of time so people don't miss the close of nominations.

By the way, my compliments on setting up your cabinet. More comments will follow in a private e-mail.



Thanks! Back to the negotiating table...

Jack
 

unmerged(10397)

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Jul 27, 2002
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As soon as I get in touch with Jack I'll share my thoughts on VP. I suppose I should run this by you guys too. I've been discussing it with Jake Langley, and thought about waiting until speaker elections ended, so that everyone got something, but I'm not so sure now. I'm not sure what to do. Any advice on this matter would be appreciated.
 

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Mr Harding, I see no objections to you keeping both the ministery and your parliament position, but if you really want to focus on your ministerial duties, your gesture of remaining MP untill Morgam returns is much appreciated.

Mr President, did you had any specific person in mind for the VP? And, to take the Speakership into account too, didn't we promise the Speakership to the RD, and the VP to the CC? If the CC gets VP, are you going to make mr Hartwell (of the MDIA) VP too, or are you thinking about something else? Can we make mr Langley VP even though he is no minister? Can we make him VP because we can change the constitution with our CPR 3/4 majority.

Mr Teano, I didn't want to make a party-position on the Speakership beacuse I thought our CPR agreement would make it quite clear that the RD would get that position. Thus, I've seen the debate as an internal matter of the RD. I'm thinking about stepping in though, just to make things a little more clear.

Congratulations on your position Robert, and you too Yuber.
 

unmerged(4271)

General
Jun 6, 2001
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(Arriving by way of a very tired carrier pigeon)

Mr. Wellesford, I received your e-mail. I believe you may be mistaken as to the CPR position on the speaker. It was agreed that the two legislative officers would NOT be selected prior to the elections. Rather they would be decided afterwards based on voter performance, other appointments, etc.

I have mentioned that the RD has lobbied me to support Mr. Fox, but there is nothing set in stone that entitles them to the position. I think that there electoral performance was impresssive and that may give them an advantage in "deserving" it, but there was certainly no agreement that it would go to them.

A vote for Mr. Fox would be a vote for someone who held the position before, and did a fine job, and is certainly justifiable.

Mr. Lundgren has entered the race for speaker quite late. I am a bit disappointed that he did not announce his intentions earlier, because it appeared to many of us that the CC wasn't interested in the speakership.

Regardless of his late entry however, I think he's a qualified candidate who deserves consideration.

Personally, I would support Lundgren, based on his nomination of Charles Morgan and I to the Deputy Speakership during the last term. His support of us helped raise the profile of the Moderate Party and gave us our first position in leadership, though we had only one MoP.

Thus, there are good reasons to support both Mr. Fox and Mr. Lundgren. Unless President O'Floinn supports one party over the other, based on his VP decision, I would suggest that each MP MoP be allowed to vote his conscience on this decision, rather than following a party decision.


One final note is that we should take the balance of power with the VP into account, though we don't know who President O'Floinn will appoint.

I have heard rumors that the RD would suggest an RD Speaker and a CC Deputy. Though I have already spoken about how I thought the Deputy Speakership was a great position, I don't see that the CC would have any interest in this, and that if they lost the Speakership and the VP that it could greatly damage the CPR coalition.

If I may be so bold, I would think that a CC Speaker, with an ESRP Deputy would balance the parliament between left and right, and an RD VP would keep the executive branch balanced between with the Center and (so they claim :p) "Center-left" in power.

I do not think we should make plans as if we can remove the VP position from a ministry. While it is numerically possible to achieve the votes I think there would be resistance from other CPR partners, and I think there are some good administrative arguments against it.

Example: Without a ministry what power does the VP actually have? Did you know our last VP was ESRP leader Josephus? While you know who he is, based on his party and METI duties, how noticeable was his VP role? A VP with no duties would be a powerless post that few would have interest in.

I think the President DOES however, have clear appointment power to name Mr. Langley to any key advisory post that he chooses and I think that such a move would, especially if we have an RD VP, help balance the government, preserve our coalition, and give us the benefit of Mr. Langley's dedication and strong work ethic.

I hope you will all consider this points. I remain in France as negotiations are slow (The French seem to go through wine as if it were water). I hope to return temporarily for the opening session of parliament and the Speaker's vote.

Please keep me informed.

Jack
 

unmerged(228)

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Jul 31, 2000
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I'm sorry but the fact that things were not 'set in stone' i.e. it's details were not a part of CPR negotiations is like putting a bomb under the CPR, or like designing flawed foundations for a beautifull monument. I'm sorry to say, but I see this as a missed opportunity for the CPR negotiations. We can allready see this happen, since it appears as if the VP position is still floating somewhere, and has not been a part of this discussion.

I would like to refer to Mr. Bartlett's contribution somewhere which essentially is the basis for the MP-Prez CC-VP RD-Speaker ERSP-D_Speaker. I found the note fair of content and a good foundation for cooperation. I will endeavour to put this note into effect.

There are a lot of if's and when's in your message. I'm going to repeat myself here, but this really concerns me, and the whole situation is putting the CPR at risk. Mr. Lundgren's nomination for Speaker seams to indicate that the CC is concerned about the stability of the CRP, and it's share in the spoils of the electorial victory.

The VP position can be made more important if the President delegates tasks to the VP. In my oppinion Mr. Langley is a very good candidate for a more active role as VP.

In the end, the role of the VP in the old system tends to be the same as that of the Deputy-Speaker. Wait untill the man in charge is unable to furfill his function. These are the things that sould be taken into the CPR negotiations too, though these issues are of a very recent nature, and couldn't be adressed before the elections.
 

unmerged(4130)

impatient compromiser
May 30, 2001
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I think the speakership problem could be solved by giving the VP more power. Here's my suggestion: Ask Mr. Fitzpatrik to become VP and to coordinate the budget review program. (FInance being the responsibility of the President). Also support Lundgreen for speaker and a ESRP MoP for deputy speaker. Alternatively appoint a sepcial advisor from the non-speaker party, to coordinate the budget review. That is unless you want to do it yourself.
This should make everyone reasonably happy.
 

unmerged(10397)

Citizen
Jul 27, 2002
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Timothy, I can't appoint Langley as VP, besides, he doesn't want the role. I am discussing his position (he most certainly will have one) and he and Mr. Bartlett of the RD have expressed interest in administration and negotiation of the CPR. I think this would work well. The right and left being present, not to mention two sensible people. We need to bring the CC back into CPR. They're probably feeling pretty alone, them being off trying to get a decent say and everyone else deciding the positions.
 

unmerged(4271)

General
Jun 6, 2001
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Originally posted by rOver
I think the speakership problem could be solved by giving the VP more power. Here's my suggestion: Ask Mr. Fitzpatrik to become VP and to coordinate the budget review program. (FInance being the responsibility of the President). Also support Lundgreen for speaker and a ESRP MoP for deputy speaker. Alternatively appoint a sepcial advisor from the non-speaker party, to coordinate the budget review. That is unless you want to do it yourself.
This should make everyone reasonably happy.

Oui! I mean, yes.

I concur.

Though I am still in France.

(Thanks for putting me on the conference call. :D)
 

unmerged(4130)

impatient compromiser
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John, what do you think about this new idea of Mr Bartlett's to let you decide? I think it could actually work if you chose your VP rather than the speaker (though it's the same thing essentially).

Otherwise I rest my case. I think Lundgreen should get speakership. I just don't like the way the RD is handling the issue. I think there is an intention to sideline or alienate the CC. But then maybe I'm just being paranoid.
 

unmerged(10397)

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Jul 27, 2002
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I want Lundgren to be speaker, and I want someone from the ESRP as Deputy. This balances it somewhat, not to mention that we bring the ESRP a little closer. The only problem with that is that ESRP received the fewest votes for parliament, which wouldn't fly well with the RD. But I'm not fond of the attitude the RD has toward the speakership. They nominated a speaker and started voting for him without talking to anyone. I understand that we weren't discussing it and the deadline was coming, but they could have started a discussion in CPR a bit earlier. I don't want to choose my VP, becuase that party is basically knocked out of the speakership race. Though if any of you can come up with a strong idea on it, that could be used to gain some leverage on the speaker. All in all though, I think we should back Lundgren in some way. What do our MP's think?
 

unmerged(4130)

impatient compromiser
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Well, I think with the new proposal on the VPs power there's no longer a risk of split in government or even serious disapointment on one side. It's no longer a balance of power issue either since the VP will become quite strong.

But I think that both the CC and the RD has made up their mind, they won't ask for the VP or concede speakership voluntarily.
Mr. Bartlett made a proposal in th CPR which said that the president should chose the speaker. It doesn't sound good but it sems that there's no way out. That's why I said that you should chose your VP now. Yes, that decides the speakership too but is a bit more natural than naming the speaker.

So I say make your choice, you won't ruin the coalition either way. Better still chose the person you would like to see as your vice president.
 

unmerged(4271)

General
Jun 6, 2001
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Originally posted by Phalanx
I want Lundgren to be speaker, and I want someone from the ESRP as Deputy. This balances it somewhat, not to mention that we bring the ESRP a little closer. The only problem with that is that ESRP received the fewest votes for parliament, which wouldn't fly well with the RD. But I'm not fond of the attitude the RD has toward the speakership. They nominated a speaker and started voting for him without talking to anyone. I understand that we weren't discussing it and the deadline was coming, but they could have started a discussion in CPR a bit earlier. I don't want to choose my VP, becuase that party is basically knocked out of the speakership race. Though if any of you can come up with a strong idea on it, that could be used to gain some leverage on the speaker. All in all though, I think we should back Lundgren in some way. What do our MP's think?

(Still on conference call...

I concur with John and Robert on preferring Lundgren, on the ESRP landing the Dep SotH position, and on the RD's handling of the process to this point, though I think they admit their mistake and are trying to find a workable solution. (From what you've told me, Mr. Bartlett and Mr. Fitzpatrick seem to be looking for some common ground)

Again, of those you could choose to be VP, I think Mr. Fitzpatrick would be the best selection. Mr. Josephus has served in that role, but I think the ESRP's electoral performance and those nasty rumors of ties between them and some of the revolutionaries are troubling. I like Mr. Hartwell, but he is relatively new and, more importantly, I think the MDIA's attention should be focused on military modernization right now, not distracted by other duties.

Mr. Fitzpatrick may not SEEK the VP position, but all of us in public service must step up and serve their country as they are needed, even if it goes against their original intentions. I would have preferred not to be the one sent to France as our elections ended and as our new government forms, but we all must do what we are called to do.

So, essentially, I think that the RD should get the VP role, which strengthens the claim that the CC should get the Speakership.

And on that note, I must ask: When will the vote on the Speaker take place? Are we abdiding by Roger's moratorium? I need some advance notice if I am to return to Eutopia and then back to France.

Thanks,

Jack
 

unmerged(4271)

General
Jun 6, 2001
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Also, while I have you all here, I want to make a point that we all need to make sure to give John our support.

We do have a power-sharing agreement, but John is president. All the CPR parties agreed to the principle issues in the Covenant for Progress and the Republic. That means, to me, that the focus of ministries in John's government should be addressing those issues, or at least issues that he supports.

John, if you feel any minister is going "rogue" and initiating policies you don't support, you have the right to call them on it or, worst case, shut them down.

I think Yuber's doing a fine job with MHA and I don't have any specific criticism of any of the ministers, but John, as President, should have the final say. When I served as MHSA under Murmurandus, I came up with several initiatives, but these were things that I first suggested to the President for approval, and I made sure to include him in any projects or events.

Every CPR party is, of course, free to pursue their own agenda, but the coalition government (and therefore ministers appointed to serve the coalition government) agreed to a specific agenda and any changes to that agenda should have John's consent and blessing.

Sorry if this is a bit of a rant. It is frustrating being overseas while the CPR hashes out major issues. And these are a particularly frustrating people over here :D.

Hope to return soon,

Jack
 

unmerged(11366)

Khan of the Crimea
Oct 21, 2002
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Whoa! What's going on? Somebody fill me in! ESRP!!! John O Floinn PRESIDENT?? Help! Please! Somebody! I'm lost!

Thus spoke C.S. Morgan before collapsing from jet lag.
 

unmerged(228)

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Jul 31, 2000
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Originally posted by Hajji Giray I
Whoa! What's going on? Somebody fill me in! ESRP!!! John O Floinn PRESIDENT?? Help! Please! Somebody! I'm lost!

Thus spoke C.S. Morgan before collapsing from jet lag.

Welcome back Mr. Morgan.

To very briefly summarise what happened, the MP and some other parties feared a massive influx of monarchy-favourites to affect the april-elections, so Mr. Teano began negotiations and together with negotiatiors from other parties, they rallied the ERSP, the RD, the MP and the CC behind the CPR flag.

But it wasn't easy though, I suggest you read the notes from earlier meetings (OOC: read the CPR thread/OOC) to see what happened.
 

unmerged(4271)

General
Jun 6, 2001
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(Message on the office Voicemail)

Gentlemen,

I am working to get home immediately, for the opening of the parliament and for the resolution of this speakership/VP debate.

From what several of you have told me by way of voicemail and e-mail, things are taking an unsettling turn in the coalition, and I'd like to add my voice to the debate.

Once I can confirm that my negotiations with the French will continue after this brief break, I shall be on the next Concorde.

If it can be helped, please do not let events proceed without me.

Jack
 
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