• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
64
0
Rednan said:
I left a small note in the Diamont Office Here , you can have a copy!
The only well known lawyer who could take the case would be the former Commissioner of Justice John O'Floinn, but he might not want to, considering he is the Speaker of the GA that Olsen was storming. Considering Olson was an MGA, he had the right to be inside, so if he wanted to protest, he should have gone in by the usual method and made a speech on the floor.
 

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
64
0
It might be a good idea to try to make progress on some of our earlier programs and policies, to try to give the media something else to chew on besides the ECB bombing and the march that turned into a riot. I know we are waiting for some VAT bill to get passed, but there is a long lead time for military aircraft construction, so anything you ordered today, Per President, in your capacity as MDIS, would not have to be paid for until next term. Also, perhaps you could go ahead with some of those state visits?
 

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
64
0
Per President, I had a visit from an arms manufacturer, Augustus de Provolution. Maybe you could ask him to start working on a proposal for a locally produced fighter. We could probably get him to start work without actually paying him anything, and leave the funding problem for the next administration.
 

unmerged(15327)

Private
Mar 5, 2003
15
0
Visit site
A note arrives from the DM of MDIS ...

President and Loic,
I've just heared something about a Russian Fighter. A very, very good one... but the fact is that the Russians, together with India, can't finance the whole project. We can buy us in that project and have all those advanced technologies. This will also help our industries.
If you want to know some more about it, have a call with H.J. Tulp. He has investigated this case.

I've also heard something from my commander in the LIRA. This are his ideas:
Major McGrath said:
My plan is to create a sort of "laboratory" in the armed forces, wich will include few units (LIRA, Marines, one wing of the Airforce, one squad of the navy, a couple of brigades) and start reforming those units first. That will at least create some quality and will help our armed forces to grow.

These are also options. Think about it.

Regards,
 

Josephus I

Lt. General
53 Badges
Apr 30, 2001
1.677
71
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Why thank you Loic. Yours are well done too. I look forward if possible to working in your cabinet shortly.

Josephus
 

Josephus I

Lt. General
53 Badges
Apr 30, 2001
1.677
71
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Per Loic...other remaining members of Cabinet.

Have you seen the pictures in Le Voix. I've got some too.

Should we arrest Per Tulp? Recommendations?

Josephus
 

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
64
0
I warned the Admiral quite a while ago that there would be an investigation. The FLEA agents on the scene were incensed at his lack of restraint in using deadly force. The choice about the investigation is whether to leave it to the military, in the person of the Inspector General, or to have FLEA do it.

The choice of the administration, and in particular the MDIS, (that is still you Per President), is what to do about him in the meantime. You could:
  1. Put him on administrative leave pending the result of the investigation
  2. Replace him as Chief of Service of the Navy
  3. Ask him to resign his commission
  4. Demote him
  5. Discharge him
  6. Do nothing

Normally choices 4 or 5 should wait until after a court martial. I now regret recommending you promote him, but the same thing would have happened if someone else was head of the Navy, as Admiral Tulp was still on the same ship as from before his promotion. He almost completely disregarded my suggestions during the affair.
 

Josephus I

Lt. General
53 Badges
Apr 30, 2001
1.677
71
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Very good Loic. Before I do anything, I will give him a chance to report to me. I will make my decision then. Thanks, as always, for your advice.

Josephus
 

Josephus I

Lt. General
53 Badges
Apr 30, 2001
1.677
71
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Loic. Humour me.

Why did FLEA operatives put up a "Welcome to Eutopia" banner? Under whose authority?

I am confused as to the chain of command during the Star operation. Were you aware at to the degree of the mission? Why was I never informed? Who was in charge?


Josephus
 

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
64
0
"We heard about this from the military. My staff handed me a message from Admiral Tulp."
To: CJC General Levarge, Command and Operations Center
From: Admiral Tulp, CoSN, TF Tulp

Will try to solve or stall situation sir, possibility exists that people aboard Hainan Star are refugees or similair but will be dealt with as possible terrorists. Women and children aboard Hainan Star. Help from FLEA or HUPD would be good as well.
"We only had three FLEA agents in the area. I had one organize a cordon to try to stop anyone from exiting the immediate area. They enlisted local police, a security company that owed MIDA a favor and a couple of busloads of selected VCS soccer fans wearing their distinctive jersey, so everyone manning the cordon was in some form of uniform and reasonably fit.

The other two I sent to the beach with orders to put up the banner. The idea was to try to get the refugees to stay put, so if anyone tried to slink away, they would more likely be any terrorists hidden within the refugees. If the boat had been full of terrorists, we would have lost two FLEA agents, but we already knew of women and children in the group, so it seemed like the method most likely to calm the situation until more help could arrive.

I informed the cabinet in this message to which you responded to keep the refugees inside the cordon. I then contacted MESA.

Admiral Tulp seemed fixated that this mixed bunch of men, women and children were invaders. He disagreed with my plan in the strongest language. He was on site and had the most effectives on the beach, so I ceded operational control their to him, to our nations shame.

No one came as far as the cordon. We should ask the survivors if anyone is missing."
 

Josephus I

Lt. General
53 Badges
Apr 30, 2001
1.677
71
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
OK. Bear with me Loic. I'm not trying to blame you. Far from it.

The way I see it, blame falls on one of two people.

1. Tulp. However, in my estimation, Tulp acted in a situation that was rapidly rising out of control and during a confusing, dangerous time. He lacked the proper command and control. The chain of command was broken.

2. Ultimate responsibility lies on the person at the head of the chain of command. That person is either MDIS or the president. In this case both those persons is me.

I am aware of the briefing I had and suggesting we cordon off the beach. After that, I had no more communiques. I need to know why I was never informed.

Would you, if elected president, be willing to set up a public inquiry into the matter to determine what went wrong and who is to blame? I know it sounds like I am passing the buck, but because of my possible guilt here; I feel there is nothing to do.

My finding is either we sacrifice Tulp or we hold an inquiry.

Suggestions? All cabinet minister....Lundgren you too....can make suggestions.

Josephus
 

unmerged(33865)

Eutopian Chess Champ
Sep 2, 2004
64
0
I agree with you that we were in a war alert state at the time the Hainan Star was intercepted. From what I can tell they waited too long to put a shot across her bows, letting the ship get too far inshore. At that time, they would have been perfectly justified in shelling or sinking the ship, as it was acting in an illegal fashion at a time when were being beset by enemies.

Once the women and children were spotted, they should have shifted gears, changed the rules of engagement. The observations from the FLEA agents at the scene indicates lack of due care in authorizing deadly force. As a said before, this warrants an investigation. As MDIS, do you want to have the Inspector General do it, or do want FLEA to do it. If you left it until next term, I would, because of my involvement, leave it to the next MDIS to decide whether the Inspector General should investigate, or whether it should be handed over to FLEA. The soldiers firing were in uniform, acting under orders, so this appears to be something the Inspector General would have to look into, whether FLEA does or not. It would only be if the IG seemed to be sweeping the matter under the carpet would I also want FLEA to look into it. It is a kind of double jeopardy, but not actually. If the IG brings a court martial, FLEA wouldn't be involved, except the two agents who were there, as witnesses. If the IG doesn't indict, then FLEA will have to investigate and present the evidence to the COJ to see whether there is grounds for a case. So he could get investigated twice, but only tried once, so his constitutional rights are protected.

Nothing can be determined about whether anything should go further up the chain until that initial investigation has been completed. He could have violated Navy protocols about using deadly force, in which case nothing besmirches you. He could have followed Navy protocols, but the extenuating circumstances of war alert status, nightime, and the failure of the ship to stop when ordered meant that the shootings were 'accidental', so again no blame reflects on you. Or the Navy protocols could be found to provide insufficient protections of civilians rights or contrary to international law, in which case, there was a pre-existing condition that needed to be corrected, but wasn't by any of your predecessors. Thus there would be a bit of blame, but spread among many.
 

unmerged(15327)

Private
Mar 5, 2003
15
0
Visit site
I think the Admiral did what he could do. He saw alot of people with assault rifles running to him. Why shouldn't he give the order to shoot. I think he was scared at the moment... But when he realised it... He couldn't control his squad anymore... Do you know how much noise comes from those rifles...

And why didn't those Chinese trow those rifles away? They must have known what such a thing is possible to. If someone points a gun at you, you will also be scared, even when it is unloaded - and you don't know that...

Although he is responsible I think he should be given a second change... What else can he do with his wooden arm? An investigation would be good, because we don't know the reasons yet. Leave him as Chief!
I hope this is a good suggestion...