Principalities

[Bigheeed]

Is there a case where people feel principalities would be a good idea?
My idea is this...
Small Kingdoms such as Wales, Brittany, Sicily and Serbia that have specific cultural requirements to create (also maybe some areas where several duchy's could be merged into a single title (Antioch)) could be created by people of any culture as Principalities. These principalities would be at a level between duke and king and so would remain a vassal of the king if he decided to create them and able to have dukes as their own vassals.
I'm thinking that (using Wales as an example) the English king could once the % ownership was met create the title as p_wales and grant it to someone reducing potentially 2 dukes to one Prince vassal. It would still contain the exact same de jure land as the k_wales title. On the other side a Celtic 2 title duke could still create the k_wales title and it would act as it does now. The K_Wales title would need to be destroyed and vice versa for the other to be created.
The bonus would be less vassals to manage and slight increase in prestige for the holder and overlord with the downside an increase in power for the holder and more likely to rebel.
There would need to be a size limit on which kingdoms could be made as principalities to prevent germany becoming one under the HRE or something really silly but it would also allow things like the principality of Antioch to exist and some of the other 1st crusade titles.

 

[alhoward]

I like it. I can see problems implementing a fifth ranking into the system, but it seems reasonable enough.

 

[RabidAnubis]

a principality was practically a duchy..... The germans simply held no distinction between a son of a soverign and a duke.

So for instance, the grand prince of saxony.

 

[Apocal]

It would be something to "fix" the current situation with Russian titles/lands.

 

[Bigheeed]

I like it. I can see problems implementing a fifth ranking into the system, but it seems reasonable enough.

I was thinking of it for more of a prestige/ vassal management point, the holder would only be a 'Prince' (unsure for the female version but not princess) while in office and his children would not be princes or princesses.

Plus of course i'm sure modders would love an additional tier.

 

[Jonni_g_n]

Nice idea, but certainly not for Sicily, at time of its creation it was the third largest Kingdom in Europe. For Brittany, and wales as well as Russian and Middle Eastern Christian Kingdoms could be an idea though...

 

[Bigheeed]

Nice idea, but certainly not for Sicily, at time of its creation it was the third largest Kingdom in Europe. For Brittany, and wales as well as Russian and Middle Eastern Christian Kingdoms could be an idea though...

Fair enough i was really just going based on land mass rather than historical accuracy, just thinking that principalities that don't align with small kingdoms such as Russia and the middle east could be titular with no drift to prevent issues with the de jure map.

 

[Ruwaard]

a principality was practically a duchy..... The germans simply held no distinction between a son of a soverign and a duke.

So for instance, the grand prince of saxony.

On the contrary a ruling prince is a Fürst in German, whereas the son of a monarch is a Prinz. In principle all direct vassals of the Empire (from higher nobility, so count and above) are Imperial Princes, so Reichsfürsten, as a rank it was one step above count, but below landgraves, margraves, dukes etc.

@ Jonni_g_n: maybe the op meant Trinacria (island of Sicily, with Naples being peninsular Sicily) and not the entire original kingdom of Sicily.

 

[Eldorian]

I often find being a superking to be annoying for play, Basically, holding multiple kingdoms is a pain. Holding multiple duchies isn't nearly so bad, as it's harder to get multiple duchies without being able to form a kingdom, but it's very easy to get multiple kingdoms without being able to form an empire. In my most recent game, I had Sicily, Africa, and Egypt, and basically just didn't bother usurping/creating the kingdom titles after the first.

 

[RabidAnubis]

On the contrary a ruling prince is a Fürst in German, whereas the son of a monarch is a Prinz. In principle all direct vassals of the Empire (from higher nobility, so count and above) are Imperial Princes, so Reichsfürsten, as a rank it was one step above count, but below landgraves, margraves, dukes etc.

@ Jonni_g_n: maybe the op meant Trinacria (island of Sicily, with Naples being peninsular Sicily) and not the entire original kingdom of Sicily.

Ahhh, thank you for explaining that further. makes a bit more sense now.