If I'm playing a reformed Nahuatal nation, and my subject is Nahuatal, and both of us are monarchies why are we still counted as privatives?
Is there any way of fixing this?
Is there any way of fixing this?
Primitives' cannot make or be marches?
- Thread starter bdolishny
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If you reformed your religion, you are not primitive anymore, so the problem is your vassal. Your vassal can be a monarchy and still be primitive(e.g. the Aztecs start the game as a monarchy). Which version are you playing and how did you create the vassal? In version 1.33, newly created nahuatl countries and countries converted to nahuatl usually start fully reformed. But if you vassalize a primitive nahuatl country, they will never be able to reform.
Thanks for the reply; they were Mayan, but I force converted them to Nahuatal.
Are you playing on version 1.33.2? In my tests in that version force converting a vassal to nahuatl makes them start with the religion already reformed(at least if you are reformed).
That doesn't actually answer my question. A significant percentage of people who give such an answer are not actually playing something which I would consider the most recent patch. Your answer could mean that you are playing the most recent version which you heard about. Or it could mean that you selected the highest version number which is available in the betas list in steam(this gives you one version before the current version). Or it could mean you don't remember which version you are playing. Or it means that you don't remember actually selecting an older version, so you think you must be on the current version. Or you associate patches with DLCs and consider everything which allows the Origins DLC the current version. Or you consider all versions the current version, because they all start with 1 and you would only consider a version 2 a newer patch. Or you consider everything which starts with 1.33, the most recent patch and don't distinguish between 1.33.0, 1.33.1 and 1.33.2. Or you found a version 1.3.3 somewhere and don't know that the position of the dot matters.
Please have a look in the main menu to see which version you are playing.
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1.33.2
I appreciate the help man but this is a bit of a head bite. I was at work at the time. Still, if you can identify the problem I'd love to know. Although between this bug and the multitude of bugs in a multiplayer game im in right now, I'm not sure if paradox even knows why.
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Just speculating, but I wonder if it has to do with the subject being a primitive + unreformed religion prior to the forced conversion. Anyway, it sounds like you’re probably stuck in your current game unfortunately.
I tried everything I could think of to convert a vassal to nahuatl in version 1.33.2(force convert a country in a war, release a country as a vassal, force convert with the subject tab) both as a primitive and as a reformed and in all cases in which I was able to convert them(conversion via the subject tab was not allowed while being primitive), the vassal started as fully reformed. So I don't know why it doesn't work in your case. Did you force convert them while you were still playing a previous version? Or are you maybe still primitive? You can see that by looking at the development cost for one of your provinces. Primitives have +50% dev cost.
How did you come to the conclusion that there is a bug here? That primitives can't make or be marches seems to be the intended behavior. And we don't know why one of your countries is primitive and we don't know what the intended behavior is in this regard. In previous versions all nahuatl countries were primitive unless they reformed themselves and the patchnotes only say the following about the topic(it doesn't even mention nahuatl):
So it might very well be that it is intended that they are primitive in your case(and it could be a bug that the countries in my tests are not primitive).
!!!!
This is amazing! I had a whole epic Nahuatl run laid out, and the biggest problem in it was that converting any vassal always locked them in to a permanent doomspiral, as an unreformed Nahuatl vassal. The only thing I could use this for was reducing the cost of culture-converting them after annex, since their provinces counted as former-primitive.
IMO, the inability to revoke march on a primitive march is a bug, and the spirit of it should be that if a march converts to a "primitive" religion, it's forced from march->vassal at the same time.
Do you happen to have a save from just before you convert a country to Nahuatl which then becomes primitive? Then you could attach it here. I'd like to see what is going on in your case and what is different to my tests.
I don't have one handy from the current patch, but I'll test it out eventually. I had an Aztec Sunset Invasion run and a Nahuatl Qing run, both of which relied heavily on vassals to simplify culture/religion flips. If I can verify your discovery (which I expect I will, you know what you're doin') I'll take another stab at one of those two runs.
Indeed they were not. Sorry, I'd meant to be clear on that. This is why I'm excited about your as-of-this-patch discovery, it means I can make another attempt at those runs.