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ashandresash

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Un nuevo diario de desarrollo. El séptimo ya. Ahora toca el comercio, y como todo en el PON, pinta estupendamente. Gracias a las virtudes de computación que permite el que este juego vaya por turnos, nos ahorramos abstracciones propias del Victoria como un único "mercado mundial" y la falta de consideración del "transporte" (ojalá se vayan corrigiendo en próximas expansiones) y vamos a un sistema comercial más basado en las relaciones entre los países y las respectivas capacidades comerciales (basadas tanto en avances
tecnológicos como en contar con flotas comerciales y buenas relaciones con los productores).

En fin, como todo lo dicho hasta ahora sobre el Pride of Nations, una pasada.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?514182-Re-Developer-diary-7-Commerce

Developer Diary #7: About Commerce

One of the questions that we regularly receive is "How is commerce handled in Pride of Nations?" This is a legitimate concern, as trade is bound to be a core component of a game of such scope as Pride of Nations.

As many of you now know, the game engine being used is a ‘simultaneous turn-based engine.’ This means that you have all the time that you want to plan for your turn, and then your commands are executed concurrently with all of the AI opponents' and players' actions during that part of the same game. Turn-based strategy games are great because they allow for complex computations under the hood during a portion of a turn, which is known as ‘hosting.’ Imagine how many calculations can be done by a modern computer in a mere second!

With that ‘luxury’ in mind, we devised our commerce system to be rather precise and realistic. At the same time, we did not want players to be burdened by chores, like having to indicate during every turn what they want to sell or buy. In a manner, we are following the old adage: ‘If it’s not broke, don’t fix it’…and so transactions were born!

But before speaking of transactions, let’s get back to basics. One of the pillars of the commerce system is that you will always be either transporting your merchandise to your home country or selling it to a specific country. Because this is a turn-based game, we have time, and we have power! As such, you won’t find a global market in Pride of Nations, but instead a world split into commerce zones. For example, there is a commerce zone for East India that has one sea façade, called ‘Indian Ocean Trade Box.’ Now, what will happen to a load of tea (and less legal substances) that the British produce in India?


Click image for larger version Name: PONDiary7.jpg Views: 79 Size: 1.13 MB ID: 30934


Well, if they have a transport fleet in our Indian Ocean Trade Box, they can get their merchandise back to their home soil. If you are a foreign country, one looking to buy, then you have several options. Either you have a merchant fleet in said Trade Box, with which you can perhaps purchase some of their merchandise (if they sell it!), or, if you lack sufficient commerce fleets, you will have to buy what's needed at the London Market from what remains (because you have to handle the contentment of your population, but we will talk about that in another diary). That is, after the British National Market has taken its share.

But there can be competition. If the demand for a product is greater than the supply, then you can bet that some will be sorry. Here, your nation's commercial technologies, how much you are willing to spend for the resources, and the relationship you have with the selling country will greatly affect your chances of getting the goods you need.

In essence, we are working with transactions. Producers will have the option to sell part, all, or none of their merchandise, and buyers will respond and compete to get the resources. You can buy directly from the production zone or, if it is more practical, wait for the producers to send the merchandise to their mother country. There, you can then make a purchase (but you won’t get ‘first dibs’). When a producer sets a transaction, he can decide if the transaction is a one-shot or if it will run indefinitely. The same goes for the buyer: they can decide whether they want to buy for one turn (and how many) or continuously. Once it is set, transactions tend to be rather stable affairs, unless something awful happens like a war that sends commerce fleets to the bottom of the ocean or plantations burning. Sure, there is the occasional annoyance of a new competitor entering the fray, but that’s part of the fun.

In any case, we hope you’ll be pleased by the system. It is a bit involved, but it works very well once you know what you really want to acquire or sell to others. Nothing more satisfying than to see money flow and merchandise stock grow!
 

beuckelssen

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La verdad es que el sistema de comercio tiene mucha mejor pinta que el paradoxiano y el juego en general apunta muy alto. Mi único miedo es que, al ser tan poquita gente en ageod y el juego tan complejo, a su salida esté lleno de bugs. Esperemos que los betatesters se dejen las pestañas... :rolleyes::D
 

ashandresash

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Y para diario de desarrollo bueno, éste. El sistema colonial, a años-luz del Victoria2 en su planteamiento (a ver cómo queda en el juego).

Pride of Nations - Developer Diary 8 - The Colonial Game

One of the key characteristics of the 19th century, and of its last 30 years in particular, is the colonial race that took place around the globe. Early on, we felt that the game should offer very specific mechanics and environment for such a crucial aspect of the era.

For the colonial game, we decided to focus on two key concepts: colonial penetration and spheres of influence. As we worked on the world map, we carved out quite a few areas that we shall call, for the sake of simplifying explanation, "colonies." These areas are present almost everywhere on the world, save for those regions where civilized, stable nations are present. Each active major nation has a Sphere of Influence (SOI) for each colony, as well as a Colonial Penetration rating.
The main reason for the presence of SOI is for helping players (and the AI) to 'invest' in colonies of interest. Colonies are rated between -5 and +5 in terms of SOI, and this is the amount of prestige that the nation will gain (or lose) each turn while holding control of the colony. In game terms, this will lead to a scramble in order to get the juiciest colonies before someone else grabs them. Of course, the various colonies' SOI are not equivalent between nations; for instance, Britain will have a high SOI in Canada while most others will have negative ones. In Africa, the Congo will probably end up with high-level SOI for most nations. This is an arbitrary representation of the interest a given region had for the various nations. Nations that did not go after colonies will have negative SOI almost everywhere; thus, they can partake in the colonial game if they wish, but this would just end up costing them prestige and their efforts would probably be best used elsewhere…but it’s still possible to get colonies if you just want one. Also, for people who would prefer a more open game, there is always the possibility to check the 'No SOI penalty' option. This is our way to please both types of players.

The nice thing about SOI is that it can be traded, reduced, or modified by events and diplomacy (regular or crisis), so it’s never set in stone as it takes into account the game’s dynamics. For instance, strong economic activity in a given area may well lead to a change in your colonies' SOI values in the same region.

The second concept is Colonial Penetration (CP), measured by a rating between 0 and 100. This is the basic element by which your colonial situation or status is judged in a given 'colony' area. Pride of Nations offers a lot of options that can be undertaken in the colonial mode. Each action will grant the player's nation some CP points. Of course, the CP increase does not come for free: you’ll need to pay for it in money and assets - sometimes even in prestige or blood!

Among the more than 30 actions available will be the options to form exploration parties to discover the land and military parties to 'negotiate' with local chiefs, exploit economic resources (and even native artifacts or treasures), establish military outposts, as well as engage in gunboat diplomacy, missionary or sanitary activity, infrastructure or trade development, construct coaling stations, etc. Some decisions may lead the natives to revolt, while others will reduce an opponent's CP in the same colony. In addition, actions will have a cap in terms of numbers or CP gained (on the spot or over long-term periods), so a carefully balanced plan of action is a must.
The trick of the game is to always keep ahead in CP in colonies of interest, as well as to try and reach critical levels before other countries. When your CP reaches or exceeds 50, you can go after claiming protectorate (or higher status) on the colony.

A crucial activity will be to keep track of your competitors’ actions in critical territories, especially those with high SOI values (or growing potential, such as future British Dominions). The game will give you alerts to warn about regions with potential risks. You may even play tricks on rivals, such as sending brutal military expeditions to colonies with high CP of your opponents with the hope that they will cause local revolts and destroy the assets of ALL colonial powers present, hopefully crippling your 'enemies' more than yourself. This is a game that all nations can play, and it is what R. Kipling called 'The Great Game,' as with the jockeying between Russia and Britain in Central Asia.
Higher Colonial Status is quite valuable. For example, protectorate status grants you a good level of control on a colony and prevents others from investing beyond limited levels, with new specific buildings and actions. At the higher levels (Formal Colony, Dominion, Statehood), you gain more benefits and may even 'expel' competitors – reducing or eliminating their CP - as well as obtain exclusivity, especially on the local resources and markets, which is a very clear bonus for your power. But depending on how much CP your action 'costs' to the other nations present, or if their SOI is greater than yours, this can lead to Casus Belli, or sometimes an unexpected colonial crisis which may lead to war if the quarrel degenerates.
We also planned for colonial status to be an item that may make a valid diplomatic agenda, so nothing can be considered as permanent, with protectorates able to be removed and colonies traded or freed.

In addition, if the colonial action is combined with the growth of your ethnical population in the colony, then you are allowed to reach more interesting levels of colonial status, such as Dominion or Statehood. Once this happens, the colony may become almost like your national territory.

And this is how we can also make an interesting colonial game in the U.S. 'Far West' or Russian Siberia, or change the status of overseas possessions of Britain that will ultimately create the key Dominions of the Commonwealth. Therefore, every nation, even if not 'colonial' stricto censu, can play that part of the game.

Stay tuned.

Philippe Thibaut

En el enlace, algunas pantallas nuevas además.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?517364-Pride-of-Nations-Developer-Diary-8-The-Colonial-Game
 

super_falco

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tl, dr.

¿Un resumencillo?
 

ashandresash

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Hay determinados territorios (no civilizados, que no pertenecen a una nación estable...) que son definidos como colonias. Para tener el control sobre ellos, hay dos conceptos clave: las esferas de influcencia y la penetración colonial.

1.- La esfera de influencia es el valor que tiene CADA colonia para CADA potencia, y tiene un valor entre -5 y 5. Esa puntuación es el prestigio que la nación ganará o perderá cada turno mientras tenga el control de dicha colonia. Estos valores son distintos para cada potencia (por ejemplo, Gran Bretaña tendrá un valor alto de "esfera de influencia" en Canadá, mientras para otros países será negativo; otros territorios, como el Congo, tendrá un valor positivo para la mayoría de potencias). Es una forma de darle "historicidad" al juego, pues así se primará un escenario más realista (algo como que si Austria-Hungría no colonizó Australia, el darle una esfera de influencia negativa hará que ni la AI ni el jugador vaya a hacerlo; aunque sí podría tener valores positivos en otro tipo de colonias, como las africanas). De todos modos, existe la opción en el juego de desactivar la penalización, con lo que el juego se hace más abierto.

De todos modos, estos valores no están fijados en piedra, sino que pueden ser objeto de comercio entre países (como sucedió con Alaska o colonias españolas/francesas en norteamérica, me imagino), o modificado por eventos y acciones diplomáticas. Si por ejemplo tienes una actividad económica fuerte en una cierta región, el valor de esas colonias se incrementará para ti en dicha región.

2.- La penetración colonial indica el status de una potencia en cierta colonia, y su valor va de 0 a 100. Hay acciones (más de 30 distintas) para aumentar ese valor... con un coste, claro. Desde negociar con jefes locales a la típica exploración, invertir en el territorio con infraestructuras o instalaciones económicas, establecer presencia militar... Algunas de estas acciones pueden llevar a revueltas indígenas o a rebajar la penetración colonial de otras potencias.

Al superar los 50 puntos de penetración colonial, puedes establecer un protectorado en la colonia. Ese status superior garantiza un cierto control sobre la colonia, previene que la inversión de otras potencias supere cierto nivel, habilita a la construcción de nuevas instalaciones o a realizar nuevas acciones. Mayores niveles de status (colonia formal, dominio, estado... que pueden requerir una colonización de población de la metrópoli en la colonia) dan más beneficios y permiten incluso la expulsión de potencias competidoras y convertir los mercados coloniales en exclusivos para la potencia preeminente. Lo que puede desencadenar reacciones de otras potencias para las que esas colonias tengan un alto valor de esfera de influencia, hasta generar casus belli, entre otras.

Al igual que sucedía con las esferas de influencia, el estatus colonial también será un elemento incluido en la agenda diplomática. El sistema colonial permite por lo que parece presencia de distintas potencias en una misma colonia (a menos que alguien aumente su status o tome ciertas acciones), lo que hace esta dimensión del juego realmente competitiva, y el origen de numerosas crisis entre potencias.
____________________________________

Ésta es mi interpretación de la interpretación del "Gran Juego" del XIX por parte de Pride of Nations :)

A ver si empezamos pronto a ver BetAARs
 

ashandresash

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Sanz de Acedo

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http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeuxvideo.fr%2Fjeux%2Fpride-of-nations%2Fpreview-test-pride-of-nations.html&h=02201

Ojo a las imagenes. Parece mucho mejor que el victoria 2. Habría que confirmar si tiene algo parecido a los eventos y decisiones del jeugo de paradox.

Para mí, es la última esperanza, el gran juego de estrategia que llevo esperando desde que me harté por excesivo uso del EU2 y el Vicky (no incluyo el CK, porque lo considero otra cosa y, además, de ese es imposible hartarse). Le he seguido la pista desde que era el Vainglory of Nations en el foro de Ageod y, tres años más tarde, parece que por fin llega la hora, justo coincidiendo con mi reconciliación con Ageod gracias al Rise of Prussia y tras la publicación de unos Diarios de Desarrollo cojonudos. Tengo miedo, de verdad, de que me termine desilusionando, pero ahora mismo pagaría 50/60 euros sin pestañear por él.
 

darkfloppy

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La fecha original era 03/04/2011... pero segun me conto un pajarito, se ha corrido un "poquito"... ;)
Dentro de poco tendras novedades de la nueva fecha exacta de lanzamiento... :D

Pareces muy informado sobre el juego. Podrias indicarme si hay algo parecido a las decisiones y a los eventos. Y si es asó si tiene más número que el victoria.
 

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Pareces muy informado sobre el juego. Podrias indicarme si hay algo parecido a las decisiones y a los eventos. Y si es asó si tiene más número que el victoria.
Tendrias que esperar a que se confirme en un diario de desarrollo... ;)
PERO, en los juegos anteriore siempre hubo eventos (ROP, RUS, etc)... asi que, obviamente, tambien tendras eventos en PON. :D
 

Sanz de Acedo

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Evidentemente, hacia adelante... asi hay mas tiempo para los 100+ nuevos betatesters que se acaban de unir al equipo. :D

Es la Sagrada Familia de los juegos de ordenador...