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Paradox played themselves here. Price hike on future games, people can understand. Price hike on games 3-4 years old? They are getting rightly hammered on steam.
Btw its great to see people who are not affected by this price hike are coming out and supporting us, thank you guys.
I think some are also using this as a platform to talk about other pricing concerns (especially with DLC). I mean in Stellaris paying 7.99$ for a few plant portraits?
There was a price increase confirmed for most countries in the eurozone.
Yea, that makes the situation worse. Paradox don't release AAA games like those companies yet they charge AAA prices and somehow their "complete experience" ends up being more expensive.
I still remember that horrible day years ago when a Paradox guy opened a thread and said "from now on we are changing our business model to modular DLCs". It has been downhill since then.
Guys, i think than Paradox won't do nothing till they see their sales this sumer sale in steam, if they don't make a good profit, im pretty sure than they will think it twice if keep or not the prices.
So if we want make this we have to spread the word to other sites that aren't this forums or reddit, maybe somebody of here knows a editor of a magazine as Pc Gamer or these pages, if they make an article of this most PC Strategy gamers kill know whats happening and why all we are so angry with the last actions of Paradox.
So if we want make this we have to spread the word to other sites that aren't this forums or reddit, maybe somebody of here knows a editor of a magazine as Pc Gamer or these pages, if they make an article of this most PC Strategy gamers kill know whats happening and why all we are so angry with the last actions of Paradox.
- Dec 14, 1999
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Getting more things for free is downhill?
If we hadnt changed model, you'd have gotten far fewer expansions than now. EU4 would have stopped patching at 1.3, and Conquest of Paradise would be a 20$ expansion, including all 1.4 fixes and graphics.
Then Wealth of Nations would come a year later and require you to have bought CoP as well, and would also be a 20$ expansion.
There would be no Res Publica.
And the final expansion, Art of War, would be released in early 2016, with about half as many features of it and the 1.8 patch. Most likely without the map changes, as eu4 would be on its way to sunset. It would also cost 20$ and require both CoP and WoN.
Then there wouldnt be anything else until and eu5 announcement about late 2017 for an early 2019 release. It would be EU4 with new map, the features from El Dorado & Common Sense...
So pdox would work on an dlc for 2 to 3 times more time-wise and that'd mean that we'd have less than half of the current features?
Also, look.
I understand the dlc policy, i understand why you do it. I even defended it back when. But writing to this thread without addressing the pricing issue will do nothing but piss people off even more.
Nice try, but no, expansions were the thing that you used to release for Victoria 1 you know, one of the many features included was:
- A Doomsday converter which allows players to continue their game in Hearts of Iron II: Doomsday
"Immersion packs", "Expansions", "Content pack", whatever synonym used... they are all DLC, not saying they are not cool and all that, what is being criticised is that they are not sold on a single pack under a reasonable price. What's wrong with releasing a true real "expansion" once a year containing all the important features developed during the year?. I know what it is: charging 9.99 for a converter would not be possible. Customers go to the Steam store and are immediately turned off by the neverending DLC list and the combined cost of the game.
You mean basically the same that it costs now on Steam (14.99€ (17$))? And what patching? Patching breaking bugs introduced by newly introduced DLCs?. Besides, you updated EU 2 up to 1.09 and the game provided fun for many years thereafter.
You mean less that it costs now on Steam (19.99€ (22.3$))?
That's ok, we could finally finish a savegame without being broken 2 months later.
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If you fail to see that your new model, who worked ok when the games were new and people were open to see how it was, is starting to damage the goodwill you had accumulated during years, it is ok. It is ok to release expansions and DLCs, if they are reasonable; it is not ok for most people to release 30-40 DLCs, with the main ones adding maybe 1/10 of what an old expansion would add, yet costing the same. It is not ok to raise the prices of very old games even more, especially in poor regions. It is not okay removing the old -66%/-75% Steam discounts. Yea they are technically "all optional" (relative), but the image of the company in the eyes of many players gets damaged: a) am I playing a watered down version and missing critical features behind a 20 dollar paywall?, b) are they gonna leave features out in the next games to be filled later with DLC? (HOI4, Stellaris)?, c) is this an EA-like company?, d) all of the previous.
Now every time a new game is released by Paradox the first thing to think is: well this is a shell that will be filled with DLCs, I better wait or skip it altogether.
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THIS!
If you want to increase prices in upcoming games/dlcs, go ahead. But on games that are 5+ years old and then having a """sale"""...
Considering the amount and prices of expensive DLCs it is too much.
TBF, this will probably die down, people will forget, and paradox will get away with it. Like with the change to DLC spamming a few years back.
Hi,Johan! Do you think that games should be a luxury for the elite?Because in some countries it so with new price policy.
EU4 with DLC cost same as monthly salary
EU4 with DLC cost same as monthly salary
I'm not sure about that.
Yes the reason this exploded was the price hike.
But the displeasure was already brewing for a long time.
The DLC spam and the tendency of clearly unfinished games ( HOI4 & Stellaris) already damaged their reputation.
I would even they those things where already Price hikes (and this time for everyone).
I think Paradox finally made the one step too far.
Honestly, if Paradox had completely stopped releasing DLC and new features for EUIV about a year and a half ago, working only to fix bugs and streamline the features that already exist while consolidating all new ideas into their design plan for EUV, I would have been totally fine with that. This neverending barrage of DLC is just too much, every three months the game is radically changed because they added another half-assed mechanic that only works properly (if you are lucky) if you buy the DLC that was released along with it. EUIV is overdeveloped as is, and to get the 'full experience' as clearly envisioned by the devs, you need an insane amount of money.
How fantastic would it be if they just released a GOTY or Ultimate Edition that had all the major DLC bundled with it, even if only the older packs (Common Sense and earlier)? I would buy that. I would be fine with it if they charged significantly more than for the base game, as long as it wasn't exaggerated the way it is now. Take my money. It's just that the current model of piecemeal, overpriced DLC that is in some cases almost obligatory to buy unless you want to roll back your game version, is god-awful. The current price hike, when people were expecting prices to finally come down after four years, is the straw that finally broke the camel's back, and that's why you are seeing this reaction.
I'm afraid you are correct, though it pains me to say it. I hope that seeing the 27% positive recent reviews on steam will give potential buyers pause. I think the backlash is even starting to eat into the all-time review score. It is 83% now, and I'm sure it was higher a month ago, though I can't find exactly how much it was at before this debacle.
I will say on a final note, I do appreciate that Paradox is at least allowing us to air our grievances on their own forum when they could easily shut us down. It shows that there is some small amount of respect for the community left.
How fantastic would it be if they just released a GOTY or Ultimate Edition that had all the major DLC bundled with it, even if only the older packs (Common Sense and earlier)? I would buy that. I would be fine with it if they charged significantly more than for the base game, as long as it wasn't exaggerated the way it is now. Take my money. It's just that the current model of piecemeal, overpriced DLC that is in some cases almost obligatory to buy unless you want to roll back your game version, is god-awful. The current price hike, when people were expecting prices to finally come down after four years, is the straw that finally broke the camel's back, and that's why you are seeing this reaction.
I'm afraid you are correct, though it pains me to say it. I hope that seeing the 27% positive recent reviews on steam will give potential buyers pause. I think the backlash is even starting to eat into the all-time review score. It is 83% now, and I'm sure it was higher a month ago, though I can't find exactly how much it was at before this debacle.
I will say on a final note, I do appreciate that Paradox is at least allowing us to air our grievances on their own forum when they could easily shut us down. It shows that there is some small amount of respect for the community left.
The rage will go down but not the prices. The thing is that many people are not "Don't want to buy with high prices", but "Can't afford to buy with high prices". And the spiral will go down: it's easier to afford DLC regulary when they are released, than buy 2 at once if you postponed one.
Don't know if I'm getting older, but EU3 and VIC2 with their expansion model were much more joyful for me.
nice try Johan, but 183.74 euros to complete my eu4 collection (oh, wait just 82.56 in this weekend), Numbers are clear
- Dec 14, 1999
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Sorry.
I'm not involved in setting prices, nor have I been a part of the management of Paradox since i stepped down in april of 2015. I merely work with creative decisions in the games these days.
- Dec 14, 1999
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The euro price for people in western europe have not changed afaik?
Would it have been better if it had been 1 game with 3 expansions at 40€+20€x3?
The reason for long times for the older expansions was that..
1) we had 1 expansion team of 3 people, that worked on 6 months and then released it.
2) we had no qa on the expansions, except for the team themselves.
3) these days, our teams are twice the size, and we have QA employed.
And still less people of those who played eu3 bought those expansions compared to those that play our newer games and buy their expansions...
There is lots to complain about on the dlc model, but the amount of content you get compared to before is not one of them.
I have always understood that switching to the DLC release model was an attempt to move to the (largely) annual sports action and sports sim franchise model (PCM, FIFA, FMxx, etc.). The property can be called on to generate a continual stream of revenue over time, which pays for the love given to the games. And I'm in no doubt about the love and the passion those working for PI and PDS have for their product.
Where the DLC model is problematic is that those other, mainly sports properties, give players the opportunity to come into the franchise with a 'mostly' working game every year, and incorporating the majority of previous development. Paradox games don't do that. The approach is not too far from asking players to purchase every historic version of Football Manager in order to play this years release. And you just decided to raise the prices of the historic versions.
It compounds a problem where you are being continually challenged by your fan-base because the paid-updates being released are regarded by some as poor value for money (anyone else with Field Marshall edition?). Describing the content update with a new name doesn't make this problem go away, it just leaves your fans with the taste of being 'managed' and 'fleeced'.
Anyway. I hope things change.
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Normaly prices of games go down over time as they age, here at Paradox we have decided a radical new approach of instead INCREASING prices! This helps generate excitement in our customers, get them involved and active and leads to more *feedback while simultaneously allowing us to increase profit margins. Paradox, for a brigher future with more and more expensive DLC with less content!
*Warning, feedback might not be positive.
*Warning, feedback might not be positive.
And then all hell broke loose. How about new start-up?
P.S. More content doesn't mean more joy.
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