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Fishy101

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Something that surprised me that I thought I would share.

I recently bought LoR and decided I wanted to try out the uber strong heavy infantry cultural retinue that everybody has been talking about. I decided to play Norway which has a surprisingly strong start in Dec 1066. In my current game as Emperor of Scandinavia, my mother who is the oldest daughter of the former King of Denmark had a strong claim to Denmark. This seems rather unusual as I thought females normally inherit weak claims. The current King of Denmark had only 1 child, a female who is married to a duke in Rus normally. 3 of his brothers are dead. His 4th brother is a Bishop who does not have a claim on Denmark (he must have rebelled and lost as he had a strong claim before). His youngest sister who is 15 has a weak claim on Denmark. I'm not sure why my mother has a strong claim as opposed to a weak one. This is a first for me as I have never been able to press a females claim on an adult male ruler before. The inheritance law in Denmark was and still is Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture. My initial plan was to wait till my mother dies before pressing my own claim for Denmark, but I got bored waiting. I was in a truce with the Fatimid and everybody else I wanted to take land from. So I pressed my mother's claim. Upon winning I was expecting the Dowager Empress of Scandinavia to become the independent Queen of Denmark. You can't land a female and every other time I've pressed a female's claim they've gone independent. Denmark was running Absolute Crown Authority which normally means I cannot inherit her lands after she dies. My expectation was to inherit her claim. What happened was not what I expected at all. When my mother won the claim to Denmark, she took a county and the Kingdom title from her brother as expected. But unexpectedly she became my vassal. So by pressing my landless mother's claim, I actually gained a county over pressing my own claim. This is actually a real coup because what this means is that for the next few years while my mother is still alive, I have a relatively stable Kingdom in Denmark as my mother is Danish and a Ylving as opposed to a Yngling. I can safely draw troops from Denmark for all my wars with no fear of a rebellion.

As a side note, retinues by dint of the fact that it gives you more troops makes your empire significantly more stable. I've only fought 1 independence war in over 100 years.
 

Kimberly

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...what's so odd about this?

You are her de jure liege, being Emperor of Scandinavia. Hence, when she becomes Queen of Denmark, she becomes your vassal. You said "you can't land a female", but uh...I can. :p I don't know what trouble you've been having with it, but I've even been able to make female bishops! (When handing out a bishopric title you hold personally instead of just appointing a successor, females are eligible.)
 

xetios

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...what's so odd about this?

You are her de jure liege, being Emperor of Scandinavia. Hence, when she becomes Queen of Denmark, she becomes your vassal. You said "you can't land a female", but uh...I can. :p I don't know what trouble you've been having with it, but I've even been able to make female bishops! (When handing out a bishopric title you hold personally instead of just appointing a successor, females are eligible.)

You need to have Absolute Cognatic succession, if you have Agnatic-Cognatic or Agnatic succession you can give titles only to male characters
 

Kimberly

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You need to have Absolute Cognatic succession, if you have Agnatic-Cognatic or Agnatic succession you can give titles only to male characters

Ooh, okay. I wasn't aware of that--I've been running absolute cognatic basically forever; I didn't know you couldn't land women without it. That's kind of odd, really.
 

icon41gimp

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The top two pretenders to the title get a strong claim regardless of gender when the ruler dies. Typically there are enough males in the general vicinity of succession that females aren't in the #2 or #3 slots, but it can happen unless the title pure Agnatic.
 

Fishy101

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...what's so odd about this?

You are her de jure liege, being Emperor of Scandinavia. Hence, when she becomes Queen of Denmark, she becomes your vassal. You said "you can't land a female", but uh...I can. :p I don't know what trouble you've been having with it, but I've even been able to make female bishops! (When handing out a bishopric title you hold personally instead of just appointing a successor, females are eligible.)

Have you been able to press an unlanded courtier's claim and gain control of him after you win his claim? I've never been able to do that. They go independent if I don't land them before I press their claim.
 

Kyle Lionheart

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Have you been able to press an unlanded courtier's claim and gain control of him after you win his claim? I've never been able to do that. They go independent if I don't land them before I press their claim.

They'd need to be of your dynasty, or your de-jure vassals. Like in this case, with Scandinavia being the liege of Denmark ;)

Also, Merry Christmas! :)
 

Comradebot

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Ooh, okay. I wasn't aware of that--I've been running absolute cognatic basically forever; I didn't know you couldn't land women without it. That's kind of odd, really.

Not really. If anything, landing women being the norm in middle age feudal society would be the odd one. The ladies just didn't have remotely equal rights.
 

ZechsMerquise73

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His 4th brother is a Bishop who does not have a claim on Denmark (he must have rebelled and lost as he had a strong claim before). His youngest sister who is 15 has a weak claim on Denmark.
Bishops can't inherit and don't get a claim.
You can't land a female
You can if you press their claim or they inherit, unless its agnatic law.
Denmark was running Absolute Crown Authority which normally means I cannot inherit her lands after she dies.
This only applies to vassals of the realm, not to the realm itself.
But unexpectedly she became my vassal.
Hmm, since you say she wasn't in your dynasty, I'm not sure. Maybe this applies to any relatives, regardless of dynasty. Or maybe mother only? Would make sense, since you put her on the throne and are going to inherit it anyway.
 

Kimberly

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Not really. If anything, landing women being the norm in middle age feudal society would be the odd one. The ladies just didn't have remotely equal rights.

It seems to me that under agnatic-cognatic, landing a woman (with male heirs) would be considered legal. Eccentric and disapproved of, perhaps, but not impossible, right? How did the legal argument go, historically?
 

Divi

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It seems to me that under agnatic-cognatic, landing a woman (with male heirs) would be considered legal. Eccentric and disapproved of, perhaps, but not impossible, right? How did the legal argument go, historically?

Varied tremendously and cause of many a succession war. It was common for kings to grant estates to mistresses, wives, etc.
 

tuareg109

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Hmm, since you say she wasn't in your dynasty, I'm not sure. Maybe this applies to any relatives, regardless of dynasty. Or maybe mother only? Would make sense, since you put her on the throne and are going to inherit it anyway.

Denmark is a de jure vassal of Scandinavia.
If you press the claims of a soon-to-be de jure vassal, he or she becomes your vassal.