OOC: No pro, about the evidence though, I don't see why my character can't say the evidence is false. I will talk to Blade! about it though so I rest it for nowOriginally posted by heagarty
OOC: OK, sorry. Hard day at work when I read it.
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OOC I post this here because it is relevant to this thread. I;m waiting for Blade! to reply to something. It will effect if I am caught or not. Wait and see guys.
'Originally posted by heagarty
(OOC: Let's assume that this WAS IC, and I'll address it,
(Sigh)
If this was a witch-hunt, or politically motivated, don't worry, YOU would be one fo the first to take down.
However, it's not. All of this is based on the FACTUAL evidence which has been presented above.
Maybe you don't read the newspapers or maybe you don't know about as much about the military as you think you do. Everything presented here has been verified.
Yes, there are holes in the entire plot that's why ALL (ahem) the conspirators have not been exposed. We only presented what we had rock solid evidence of. If you can't see that, then maybe you've been spending too much time in the wrong parts of Amsterdam.
You claim to be so bloody patriotic. Here's direct evidence of treasonous acts and you want to deny it or cover it up. That really says something about your character.
You are the one that is disusting, and you have no right to wear that uniform.
(ooc: PMed Blade! 'bout the evidence and he said that it was open for debate
)ROCK SOLID PROOF?!
I stated the reasons why I think it is bullshit. I would like to have a reaction on that. I don't need to hear for the 100st time that you don't like me, I know that and I don't give a damn to be honest.
Offcourse I have communications with Lt General Hartwell, he's a collague and friend of mine. I'm not planning to cover anything up since there is nothing to cover up! I'm by the way confident that General Hartwell will be found not guilty.
(Sighs)
Allright then, let's see...
You claim "WE HAVE NO SPECIAL FORCES!!!How in bloody name could we send special forces into the WET if there are NONE!
"
This in no way discredits the evidence against Lt. Gen. Hartwell.
Whether a Guyanan mercenary would be intimate enough with our military structure so as to use the proper name is irrelevant. The mercenaries' claim that they worked with the military and that a fake rescue was engineered so that the military would be sent into the WET to "save they day" by killing a few sacrificial merc recruits while the rest played dead.
Whether the merc can correctly identify Eutopian military by corps or function is irrelevant.
You also claimed "The Military can't have stormed the Eco-facist compound as the only forces that are in the vicinity of the WET are the Marines in Kirby and they haven't left Kirby since the civis didn't trust them."
The reports of the Military's involvement in the WET were widely reported by Eutopian news media. If you choose to dismiss the validity and objectivity of the Eutopian NEWSlink service, that is your right, but isn't it more likely that you simply don't know everything going on in the military, especially in areas outside of the Navy?
(OOC: About these two points, in RL you might actually be RIGHT! I didn't think Eutopia had special forces and it seems like the armed forces might know something about such an action. However both of these bits of evidence came from Blade!. So, heretical as it sounds, maybe he goofed.
However, if we assume, for gameplay, that he is infallilble, we must assume that the mercs just misspoke, and that the military vs the Eco-guerrillas really did happen.)
As far as your other questions, they are all subject to judgement and opinion and not validity of the evidence I've presented.
You've asked "Do you really think that General Hartwell would be stupid enough to use the account of the EUtopian Military?"
Perhaps he simply didn't think he would get caught. It has often been joked about how bureaucratic military accounting has become, maybe he thought it would simply be lost in the red tape? Or perhaps it wasn't him, but one of his subordinates who was less than cautious?
And while your faith in your friend is certainly expected, perhaps you give him too much credit? After all it is him, and not the other conspirators, who was sloppy enough to get caught?
Finally I find this an interesting statement that you make:
"General Hartwell is just like me and a whole bunch of other people strongly against the Topa uprising and just like me and a whole bunch of other people he want's to go in with force.
Do you really think that if someone wants to fight somewhere he's going to give his enemies weapons?"
Followed by....
"At most Gen. Hartwell was bittered about the gov. doing nothing against the rebellion and send some guys over there to do something about it. nothing serious."
Perhaps we have EXTREMELY different ideas about what "serious" means.....
Sometimes to justify action, an "event" is needed. Just as the United States used a fabricated attack on US Ships in the Gulf of Tonkin to begin armed hostilities against VietNam, some times the more zealous militarists don't mind "creating" their own crisis to justify the use of force.
Regardless, if you of all people, acknowledge that this is something he is capable of doing, engineering rogue military operations inside Eutopian territory, then things look pretty grim for your friend.
Jack Teano
Deputy MILE
(OOC: About this one "Why do civis havent't got any knowledge of time?" That's not really fair considering how Eutopian time works. I could just as easily say that Operation Viking Raid" took place just months ago. Which it did, in RL. I think there's got to be some gray area here or a better official definition of how time passes.)
Allright then, let's see...
You claim "WE HAVE NO SPECIAL FORCES!!!How in bloody name could we send special forces into the WET if there are NONE!
"
This in no way discredits the evidence against Lt. Gen. Hartwell.
Whether a Guyanan mercenary would be intimate enough with our military structure so as to use the proper name is irrelevant. The mercenaries' claim that they worked with the military and that a fake rescue was engineered so that the military would be sent into the WET to "save they day" by killing a few sacrificial merc recruits while the rest played dead.
Whether the merc can correctly identify Eutopian military by corps or function is irrelevant.
You also claimed "The Military can't have stormed the Eco-facist compound as the only forces that are in the vicinity of the WET are the Marines in Kirby and they haven't left Kirby since the civis didn't trust them."
The reports of the Military's involvement in the WET were widely reported by Eutopian news media. If you choose to dismiss the validity and objectivity of the Eutopian NEWSlink service, that is your right, but isn't it more likely that you simply don't know everything going on in the military, especially in areas outside of the Navy?
(OOC: About these two points, in RL you might actually be RIGHT!
I didn't think Eutopia had special forces and it seems like the armed forces might know something about such an action. However both of these bits of evidence came from Blade!. So, heretical as it sounds, maybe he goofed. However, if we assume, for gameplay, that he is infallilble, we must assume that the mercs just misspoke, and that the military vs the Eco-guerrillas really did happen.)
As far as your other questions, they are all subject to judgement and opinion and not validity of the evidence I've presented.
You've asked "Do you really think that General Hartwell would be stupid enough to use the account of the EUtopian Military?"
Perhaps he simply didn't think he would get caught. It has often been joked about how bureaucratic military accounting has become, maybe he thought it would simply be lost in the red tape? Or perhaps it wasn't him, but one of his subordinates who was less than cautious?
And while your faith in your friend is certainly expected, perhaps you give him too much credit? After all it is him, and not the other conspirators, who was sloppy enough to get caught?
Finally I find this an interesting statement that you make:
"General Hartwell is just like me and a whole bunch of other people strongly against the Topa uprising and just like me and a whole bunch of other people he want's to go in with force.
Do you really think that if someone wants to fight somewhere he's going to give his enemies weapons?"
Followed by....
"At most Gen. Hartwell was bittered about the gov. doing nothing against the rebellion and send some guys over there to do something about it. nothing serious."
Perhaps we have EXTREMELY different ideas about what "serious" means.....
Sometimes to justify action, an "event" is needed. Just as the United States used a fabricated attack on US Ships in the Gulf of Tonkin to begin armed hostilities against VietNam, some times the more zealous militarists don't mind "creating" their own crisis to justify the use of force.
Regardless, if you of all people, acknowledge that this is something he is capable of doing, engineering rogue military operations inside Eutopian territory, then things look pretty grim for your friend.
Jack Teano
Deputy MILE
(OOC: About this one "Why do civis havent't got any knowledge of time?" That's not really fair considering how Eutopian time works. I could just as easily say that Operation Viking Raid" took place just months ago. Which it did, in RL. I think there's got to be some gray area here or a better official definition of how time passes.)