Presenting Schrodinger's ZoC (video)

[bbqftw]

I've often had the suspicion that the game recalculates ZoC regardless of changes in the game state. Of course memory can be inexact so I'm glad I found a clear example yesterday.

Anyways, no hostile navies are blockading straits, no mothballed forts are involved, no armies are merged, and nothing gets sieged down during the half month this set of moves takes place in.

So for the ZoC experts:

1) Why is Suo->Aki->Iyo a legal move in the first place?
2) Why does pausing in Aki cause Aki->Iyo to become an illegal move with no change in game state?

 

[makaramus]

THIS ONE can be bug not sure But hey: atleast its not "ai is cheating" title

 

[bbqftw]

The koreans aren't involved in the war at all..

 

[Leon12]

I think the initial move is legal because you are moving into the ZoC at Aki from Suo and once you are in ZoC you can either
a.) return to the province you came from
or
b.) leave ZoC completely (which I think is what's happening here, Iyo is not in any fort's ZoC)
or
c.) move onto the fort to siege it down

I have no idea why it's being recalculated to make Iyo a non-legal move though. Bug?

 

[erneiz_hyde]

I can't make up your return province while your army is still in Suo. I'm guessing the return province is the sea zone because you dropped them with an amphibious landing, which makes the first move possible. But as soon as you leave Suo, it became your return province but since the order has been made it will execute as normal. But, you stopped mid-order so now the new set of order follows the new set of rule.

 

[makaramus]

I can't make up your return province while your army is still in Suo. I'm guessing the return province is the sea zone because you dropped them with an amphibious landing, which makes the first move possible. But as soon as you leave Suo, it became your return province but since the order has been made it will execute as normal. But, you stopped mid-order so now the new set of order follows the new set of rule.

makes sense weird as confucian ottoman empire but makes sense I suppose

 

[Facepalm]

I can't make up your return province while your army is still in Suo. I'm guessing the return province is the sea zone because you dropped them with an amphibious landing, which makes the first move possible. But as soon as you leave Suo, it became your return province but since the order has been made it will execute as normal. But, you stopped mid-order so now the new set of order follows the new set of rule.

Nvm.

 

[schondetta]

I can't make up your return province while your army is still in Suo. I'm guessing the return province is the sea zone because you dropped them with an amphibious landing, which makes the first move possible. But as soon as you leave Suo, it became your return province but since the order has been made it will execute as normal. But, you stopped mid-order so now the new set of order follows the new set of rule.

rule number 14607 section 56: article II in the EUIV ZOC by-laws

 

[Piotrzeci]

Bugging the game? Certainly not. This is simply a normal assumption of the executive office, as laid out in form 32B, on the administration of the Kingdom, whitepaper 48:53-D, on the movement of units under certain circumstances, as modified by protective clauses 3, 8 and 12b, law 48-9 and edict 3W-4. What is there not to understand? Your majesty has signed all of them.

 

[deathbypie]

In the 1.24 patch notes:
"Identified where approximately in code AI fort ZoC ignore bug comes from and tried to suppress it."

Everything seems completely approximately fixed.

 

[tobias.mb]

I can't make up your return province while your army is still in Suo. I'm guessing the return province is the sea zone because you dropped them with an amphibious landing, which makes the first move possible. But as soon as you leave Suo, it became your return province but since the order has been made it will execute as normal. But, you stopped mid-order so now the new set of order follows the new set of rule.

This would also be my guess.

 

[makaramus]

Bugging the game? Certainly not. This is simply a normal assumption of the executive office, as laid out in form 32B, on the administration of the Kingdom, whitepaper 48:53-D, on the movement of units under certain circumstances, as modified by protective clauses 3, 8 and 12b, law 48-9 and edict 3W-4. What is there not to understand? Your majesty has signed all of them.

Kill them. ALL.

( )

 

[Piotrzeci]

My theory is:
-It is legal, because the Return Province of this one unit you transfered your army into was the Seto Inland Sea. It would allow it to move to any province adjacent to this sea tile without any restrictions. You just made your whole army follow rules of a unit that was most likely landed from a transport there.
-It became illegal probably because the game had the chance to recalculate everything. Stoping your army was enough to give the game signal to check if everything is alright. It feels buggy, because the game should do it the moment you transfer units.
That is just a theory, but knowing if there was a Return Province icon on the sea tile and where the unit came from could help.

 

[Piotrzeci]

Also there is a possibility (I don't know if it works that way), but the reason why the game recalculated your Return Province was: lack of transports. The unit could walk to any province adjacent to Seto Inland Sea, because it's Return province was Seto Inland Sea, because he came from a ship (it feels arbitrary, but you can walk through all provinces that are adjacent to Return Province (even if it is a sea tile), you can even walk through a line of forts). Once you stopped the movement the game read that there are no enough transports for this Army and recalculated Return Province to some land one (and as the game remembers what province you came from it defaulted to it).
...Probably.

 

[tnlyons]

In the 1.24 patch notes:
"Identified where approximately in code AI fort ZoC ignore bug comes from and tried to suppress it."

Everything seems completely approximately fixed.

No no not fixed.... *suppressed*

 

[Sharples88]

I call it the Fort Inconsistency Paradox. Our men cannot move to a province that we are already moving towards if we decide to wait a day or two and then try to move into the province again. We must go around their entire fort yard to get to the province!

 

[Chaingun]

No no not fixed.... *suppressed*

Really I know better than to claim it's fixed.

 

[Facepalm]

Ok, from the wiki:
"From a ZoC province you can always directly move to any province without a non-neutral fort that is either the Return Province, a province adjacent to the Return Province, or a province adjacent to a militarily accessible non-ZoC province adjacent to the Return Province (i.e. any province with distance from the Previous Province as previously defined up to 2)."

This is contrived as hell, but once in a ZOC you can always move through the ZOC to adjacent provinces that are up to 2 steps from the currently saved "Previous Province" (The last non-ZOC provinces you exited.), unless the first step is a ZOC.

In this example Hyuga, Higo, Hizen, Chikuzen, are all 2 steps from Iyo (through bungo.) and Bungo is one step, making the movement from Aki to Iyo legal, despite the ZOC.

But if the currently saved "Previous Province" is either Satsuma, or Suo, these are 3 steps from Iyo, so the ZOC can - and will - block you (The path Suo-Aki-Iyo is blocked by the Aki ZOC.)


The problem is "simply" that "previous province" is static when deciding if the path is legal.