Presence in India mission ruins friendships

[tomas144]

Me and France were friends since 1444, but now, they've mission to get presence in India. I've got -200 relations modifier with them since they desire all my indian provinces ... ain't that stupid? They don't even have claims on my provinces ... now every great power hates me

 

[Zelius]

That modifier is indeed ridiculous.

1) It's way too large. Even in games where I could easily crush a nation just by piling my stacks into his they would go hostile over this mission.
2) You most often can't call your ally (takes a while to break alliance) to war against an indian nation to give them a province, nor can you sell them one due to -1000 unaccepted culture, so there is no way for a player to 'fix' this.

 

[Sukramo]

Ruined both my France and GB alliance in my Orissa game. It should not give claims/ make them desire provinces belonging to someone they are allied to.

 

[knoddy]

That modifier is indeed ridiculous.

1) It's way too large. Even in games where I could easily crush a nation just by piling my stacks into his they would go hostile over this mission.
2) You most often can't call your ally (takes a while to break alliance) to war against an indian nation to give them a province, nor can you sell them one due to -1000 unaccepted culture, so there is no way for a player to 'fix' this.

if they have claims (the mission gives claims) they should buy the province from you regardless of non accepted culture shouldnt they?

 

[Thrake]

Nothing new here. Every mission giving claims ends up in a similar situation, so France will hate Savoy/Britanny when they get the relevant missions, the Ottomans all the Muslim nations they're given claims on,... Some countries are bound to hate one another at some point.

 

[ace1234567890]

It also happens for any of the other "get a province in region X" missions. It's absolutely ridiculous. You could have just two provinces in the region, and even though there are dozens of other perfectly good provinces they could conquer, (even available uncolonized land in some cases) they will still go hostile to you and desire your provinces. Even if you are allies. The AI really needs to be programmed to desire the easiest possible land in the region. Such as uncolonized land or a weak non-western minor. At the least, make it so they don't desire allies' provinces unless there are no other options. Going hostile to every single nation that owns land in the region is just ridiculous. And the gameplay effects are quite serious since it constantly destroys perfectly good alliances for no logical reason.

 

[indika_tates]

Late in the game, every western nation got that infamous mission. So, you lose all of your alliances sooner or later. The problem is that the mission must be fixed to have the AI desire only in indian provinces (neither western nor captured) and it only should be available to nations who have exploration or expansion ideas and have that provinces in core range.

Around 1700 the OPM Papal State broke our alliance (as Spain) because of that quest. Disgusting, guess why. It makes no sense.

 

[eon47]

What kills me is that I never even see Europeans go into India. The only effect it seems to have is making the AI angry at human players.

 

[Tweakee]

Transport ships should probably be faster to build, or not count against the fleet limit. The AI just isn't good enough at maintaining a transport fleet to handle eastern invasions.

Or perhaps trade companies should become autonomous vassals like colonies (that you can't annex) so that they'll have a standing army in those regions.

Because it makes sense for India to become a source of conflict for European powers... but not for them to be incapable of doing anything in the region.

 

[Oryxslayer]

Whats really weird is that I frequently see my Euro allies go back to friendly after the mission expires or they take a province. It kinda shows the flaws in the mission system.

 

[Frungy78]

Perhaps anticipate that all colonizers will get this mission, and ally non-colonial European powers like Austria, Commonwealth, or non-Norwegian Scandanavia.

 

[Sukramo]

Transport ships should probably be faster to build, or not count against the fleet limit. The AI just isn't good enough at maintaining a transport fleet to handle eastern invasions.

Or perhaps trade companies should become autonomous vassals like colonies (that you can't annex) so that they'll have a standing army in those regions.

Because it makes sense for India to become a source of conflict for European powers... but not for them to be incapable of doing anything in the region.

France dropped a good 40 stack on me in India and added another 40k in the second wave. Fortunatly I already had all I needed and quicly peaced out.

But if you want better AI naval invasions, then I demand AI naval attrition. So tired of seeing Moldavia/Genoa/Seden sieging out South America in the 1600s.

 

[Zelius]

if they have claims (the mission gives claims) they should buy the province from you regardless of non accepted culture shouldnt they?

Trouble is, they don't get claims on everything. I have seen France getting claims on all of Jaunpur's coast while having none on Indian-tech Hindustan, which owned basically entire India (I had basically just Bengal node). According to wiki, they also don't get claims on western nations.

In that same game France declared on Bengal, so well done them, but they didn't have any claims on their one coast province exclave even after they sieged it (So presumably they discovered it then). However, they didn't want MA to actually fight rest of Bengal because -1000 strategic interests.

 

[Tweakee]

France dropped a good 40 stack on me in India and added another 40k in the second wave. Fortunatly I already had all I needed and quicly peaced out.

But if you want better AI naval invasions, then I demand AI naval attrition. So tired of seeing Moldavia/Genoa/Seden sieging out South America in the 1600s.

The AI does fine when they already have a navy. It's when their navy gets sunk that they have no backup plan or ability to recover quickly.

I'm a bit surprised they've never been able to code AI handling of naval attrition. It doesn't seem that hard, the AI can calculate how much attrition is "safe" far more easily than we can.

 

[grommile]

I'm a bit surprised they've never been able to code AI handling of naval attrition.

I believe that "teach the AI to cope with naval attrition so that naval attrition can be turned on for the AI" is on the list of "things they totally intend to do sometime, but it isn't high enough priority to compete with, say, diplomatic AI or land warfare AI improvements and fixes".

 

[tomas144]

Update: They've gotten provinces in India, now they're happy and we are allies again ...

 

[Puritan]

Update: They've gotten provinces in India, now they're happy and we are allies again ...

The real question is why didn't you snuff France in the cradle?

 

[tomas144]

Even better, now they broke their alliance with Savoy because they've mission to incorporate them ... as far as I can remember, they've been allies from the beginning until now

 

[Wizzington]

This is fixed in 1.12, the generic mission has been replaced by a bunch of missions for specific provinces that don't target allies.

 

[tomas144]

The real question is why didn't you snuff France in the cradle?

they have my dynasty so I am just waiting for the right time