Preorder

[7thGalaxy]

The worst thing about this is the modding aspect - as paradox has decided to charge for additional sprites, people won't be able to make their own - one of the cool things about Hoi 2 was the sprite modding - it always brought a level of freshness to the game when you changed the graphics and the pictures, made it in some way replayable, and the great variety of different ideas and sprites helped that too - keeping me playing the game for years after I might have stopped.

Now we will have to pay for that - thumbs down to paradox.

 

[VampiRos]

Yeah.. But we arent' talking about expansion packs here, we are talking DLC, which tends to be smaller packages of stuff


@Singleton: *Cough* Relic Entertainment *cough*

It is just my way to say: DLC sucks, expansion packs rules :rofl:... do i always have to "buy" something for small amounts? Why? If they can be provided in a big pack why buy thousands of little ones? Its my protest note, nothing else...

 

[unmerged(97006)]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413935

Poll is up.

 

[Johan]

For it to work, I suspect it would have to be very very easy and convenient. Sort of you select a country in HOI3 and play with sprites in the options, and it asks "do you want to get full set of US sprites for just $0.99?", you press yes, wait few minutes and start the game with the full set. If not, you will not be bothered again and would have to do it explicitly say via GG.

It can all be access from inside the game, just enter your GG login details in a menu and it lists what content you have bought and you can see what else is available.

 

[Enigma1]

It can all be access from inside the game, just enter your GG login details in a menu and it lists what content you have bought and you can see what else is available.

What if you don't have a GG account, and don't want one?

Steam anyone?

 

[alanschu]

I can agree with Mosby's post in some ways.


My two cents:
If Paradox is going to adopt a pay for PRC (Post Release Content) scheme, my recommendation is that they mix up pay PRC with free PRC. From my experiences doing such a thing is important for preventing a "nickel and dime" perspective, and since some stuff is still available without cost, fans still get the perspective that the game is being supported for everyone, not just those that are interested in paying for additional content. And really, a problem with Day One pay content is that it becomes much more transparent that this content was developed with the rest of the game, so why shouldn't it be included with the rest of the game?


Even if we're just looking at sprites (though I imagine you can do so much more with PRC than just sprites if you wanted to. Various battle scenarios like Mosby suggested is a great idea).


For Day One PRC though, my recommendation would have been to offer up some sprites as free content. This gets people excited about additional content updates. Don't release all of them, but periodic small updates of a few sprites here or there. But then you can do a bit more focused and/or larger updates that have more sprites.


For example:

Day One content update available for free could be something like Tank Sprites for the Soviet Union and Germany. My impression is that these two countries get played the most, so right away it hits a large amount of your fanbase playing the game. Don't release all of them, but give them say a couple of the popular main battle tanks that people would really like to see. Then follow it up with a larger, small cost release that unlocks the rest of the tanks, in addition to more flavour for each side with respect to more tank sprites, more plane sprites, and more naval sprites.


Though I think timing is important. If this larger update came a bit after the release of the game, it'd give the impression that Paradox is continuing to support the title after release, and it makes accepting the cost a lot easier to swallow because the perception is that there continued to be an investment of man hours (which are expensive) after the release of the title.


Just my thoughts though.

 

[Johan]

The worst thing about this is the modding aspect - as paradox has decided to charge for additional sprites, people won't be able to make their own - one of the cool things about Hoi 2 was the sprite modding - it always brought a level of freshness to the game when you changed the graphics and the pictures, made it in some way replayable, and the great variety of different ideas and sprites helped that too - keeping me playing the game for years after I might have stopped.

Now we will have to pay for that - thumbs down to paradox.

People complained that our sprites were too ugly in Eu3, so we licensed a system to make better looking sprites in before Rome.

It is still possible to mod and use your own sprites, but since its 3d it is alot harder for a casual artist to make a sprite. (As you can't just steal 2d-images from other games like so many did for hoi1/hoi2)

 

[Jazumir]

The worst thing about this is the modding aspect - as paradox has decided to charge for additional sprites, people won't be able to make their own - one of the cool things about Hoi 2 was the sprite modding - it always brought a level of freshness to the game when you changed the graphics and the pictures, made it in some way replayable, and the great variety of different ideas and sprites helped that too - keeping me playing the game for years after I might have stopped.

Now we will have to pay for that - thumbs down to paradox.

What i am saying. Leave the moddable stuff to the modders and done copyright it. It hurts your fanbase in multiple ways. First off the modders themselves might get annoyed. Secondly those who play the mods now have to basically pay, for what they otherwise would get for free. Third, and this applies to eye-candy only (or mostly): the variety drops. Unless PI is gonna publish various SPs for each nation and thus canabalize its own efforts.

 

[ok2useLane]

King and Johan,

I can see the business side of your argument. Buying extras is fine with me, as long as the game is playable without them.

 

[Johan]

I can agree with Mosby's post in some ways.


My two cents:
If Paradox is going to adopt a pay for PRC (Post Release Content) scheme, my recommendation is that they mix up pay PRC with free PRC. From my experiences doing such a thing is important for preventing a "nickel and dime" perspective, and since some stuff is still available without cost, fans still get the perspective that the game is being supported for everyone, not just those that are interested in paying for additional content. And really, a problem with Day One pay content is that it becomes much more transparent that this content was developed with the rest of the game, so why shouldn't it be included with the rest of the game?


Even if we're just looking at sprites (though I imagine you can do so much more with PRC than just sprites if you wanted to. Various battle scenarios like Mosby suggested is a great idea).


For Day One PRC though, my recommendation would have been to offer up some sprites as free content. This gets people excited about additional content updates. Don't release all of them, but periodic small updates of a few sprites here or there. But then you can do a bit more focused and/or larger updates that have more sprites.


For example:

Day One content update available for free could be something like Tank Sprites for the Soviet Union and Germany. My impression is that these two countries get played the most, so right away it hits a large amount of your fanbase playing the game. Don't release all of them, but give them say a couple of the popular main battle tanks that people would really like to see. Then follow it up with a larger, small cost release that unlocks the rest of the tanks, in addition to more flavour for each side with respect to more tank sprites, more plane sprites, and more naval sprites.


Though I think timing is important. If this larger update came a bit after the release of the game, it'd give the impression that Paradox is continuing to support the title after release, and it makes accepting the cost a lot easier to swallow because the perception is that there continued to be an investment of man hours (which are expensive) after the release of the title.


Just my thoughts though.

I don't want to charge money for post release content that affects gameplay. That should be free, unless we make features for a big expansion.

New scenarios, new sprites, new music, new graphics etc, that is stuff that could be DLC.

 

[devoncop]

Extra Downloadable Content..........

Let me explain myself a bit further. It is not that I see this as a bad idea but in view of the earlier Bethesda 'debacle' it might be as it draws some non-excisting parallels.

I don't mind about it though as I don't use sprites.

And, I have to say, I actually encourage the inclusion of downloadable content as a marketing tool but instead of sprites I would suggest some additional scenario's/campaign starts. I wouldn't mind paying E 1,99 for a May 1940 campaign start two months after release for example. Or for that matter an alternative may '45 scenario. Perhaps even a 'battle scenario pack'.
But paying from some extra eye-candy in a war game........it does bring up memories of Bethesda and EA (Empire Total war additional units).

Im a bit bemused by all the fuss to be honest. All of the downloadable content is OPTIONAL guys. The game is complete and looks to be epic in scope. All nations include free sprites. The extra sprites are FREE if you want them and are happy to preorder from gg (and maybe others).If, like me you are in the UK and can buy HOI3 for 25 quid from amazon then an extra 70pence (I euro) will hardly be an issue IF I wanted the extra sprites.

As for your views on extra scenarios Singleton, I see this idea as no different from expansion packs (Doomsday anyone?) , and no-one seemed too upset that those features hadnt been included in the original game.

The only definate "NO" would be anything that gave some players advantages over others as a result of extra "elite" units a la Creative Assembly, and unbalancing multiplayer games.

Sorry to go on but people are being a bit hysterical in my view

 

[dsteve3]

I will be purchasing additional blue coins from GG as it is well worth the while to both support the people who make my favourite line of games and have a pool of credit to use to download new and expanded features for Hearts of Iron 3.

If this system will work best for Paradox to support Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, and their other games, you can expect that I will do what I can to assist.

Make sure to offer new ways of earning blue coins too!

 

[alanschu]

I don't want to charge money for post release content that affects gameplay. That should be free, unless we make features for a big expansion.

New scenarios, new sprites, new music, new graphics etc, that is stuff that could be DLC.

That's fair and I don't think that my examples did affect gameplay.

I do agree that that is important.

 

[EnderV]

It can all be access from inside the game, just enter your GG login details in a menu and it lists what content you have bought and you can see what else is available.

Can you buy it from that menu? If so, it would be pretty nice and even I might be tempted if I have a weak moment .

 

[Johan]

Can you buy it from that menu? If so, it would be pretty nice and even I might be tempted if I have a weak moment .

yes, but only if you got bluecoins at your account.

 

[Nikolai]

What is a bluecoin?

 

[unmerged(146320)]

It's a weird sort of currency thing they have going on at gamersgate.com.. Never quite got the idea of why it is there, but you can exchange cash for the coins, and then use them to buy stuff.

 

[King Jary]

I´m always happy to see company's that listen to and respect their costumers. It feels like that is increasingly rare nowadays...

But Paradox rules!!!

 

[Enigma1]

I feel that if paradox had released the game and then 2 months down the line asked everyone if they want to pay for extra sprites, then I don't think there would have been any outcry (from myself included).

But to try and sell them to us before the game has even been released. indicating that they could have been in the game but were 'witheld' was a mistake.

Great to see paradox listening and reacting so quickly. That is why we all love Paradox so much.

 

[Johan]

It's a weird sort of currency thing they have going on at gamersgate.com.. Never quite got the idea of why it is there, but you can exchange cash for the coins, and then use them to buy stuff.

You can also get bluecoins from writing reviews, and helping other customers at GG.

So basically, if you lack funds, you could be active there and help out, and get enough coins to get the DLC you want.