If you had read the developer diaries & the complaints, you would have realised that there was a lot wrong with the game. Main reason I never bought it, & nothing has changed since, even though I love that period more than the CK one.
- 3
- 2
Pre-oder worth it?
- Thread starter Alspego
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
If you had read the developer diaries & the complaints, you would have realised that there was a lot wrong with the game. Main reason I never bought it, & nothing has changed since, even though I love that period more than the CK one.
Only preorder if the preorder bonuses seem worth it to you. Otherwise wait.
It's a bit hard to evaluate in this case, of course, since the major chunk of the preorder bonus is a season pass with the first three DLCs at a discount (if you buy the "Royal" edition, the cost is base game + $25, while the expansion pass on its own will be $35 and the full DLC will presumably be more than that for all 3), which is a gamble. And while they probably have some reasonably concrete plans for the 1st DLC, by the 3rd DLC it's probably little more than a "Maybe X?" on someone's internal document, so even the devs couldn't advise you on that one.
The other pre-order bonus is HRE clothes (and Abbasid clothes for the fancy "Royal" edition), which comes down to whether some extra clothes for Germans is worth the risk of getting burned.
It's a bit hard to evaluate in this case, of course, since the major chunk of the preorder bonus is a season pass with the first three DLCs at a discount (if you buy the "Royal" edition, the cost is base game + $25, while the expansion pass on its own will be $35 and the full DLC will presumably be more than that for all 3), which is a gamble. And while they probably have some reasonably concrete plans for the 1st DLC, by the 3rd DLC it's probably little more than a "Maybe X?" on someone's internal document, so even the devs couldn't advise you on that one.
The other pre-order bonus is HRE clothes (and Abbasid clothes for the fancy "Royal" edition), which comes down to whether some extra clothes for Germans is worth the risk of getting burned.
- 2
wait, i thought that you could still buy the royal edition after release. Or am i misunderstanding you @Rubidium
+ it was announced that the HRE clothes would be availeble some time after release for like *$2-$3. So not worth the pre-order risk for me.
+ it was announced that the HRE clothes would be availeble some time after release for like *$2-$3. So not worth the pre-order risk for me.
- 2
Precisely how I feel. I actually enjoy Imperator now and again, and I knew what I was getting going in. Is it the best Paradox title? The deepest? Neither are true, in my opinion. But it's certainly not a bad game on its own merits. If one were looking for an Earth's Core deep experience or a completely unique title akin to Victoria, however, the dev diaries and gameplay videos made quite clear that was never going to be what we were getting.
- 2
Without intending any offense... How did Imperator: Rome disappoint you if you literally saw what you were buying ahead of time?
- 8
So what about SEGA starting to fund a GS franchise? For me, as a customer, it only means a wider choice of games and healthy competition of producers. And I believe PDX has all necessary capabilities to beat any competitor in this genre.
“Very strong cash flow and profit quickly become a dry well” not because customers would stop pre-ordering each and every thing that PDX offers, but in case PDX would produce crap games. However I am sure they are absolutely able (in terms of human and financial resources) to produce great games, as they often have done.
As a side note, it would help to learn something about PDX financials before making statements like “$3.1 bn is largely tied up in assets like offices and warehouses”.
- 2
All I'm aware of with regards to their public financial statements is revenue and stocks. I don't think they make every one of their assets public. I'm estimating based on three truths:
1. Their operating income in 2018 was about $52.3 million, less than half their total revenue. Even if we assume that as the average across their entire existence as a company, we're talking about a billion dollars in 21 years. Clearly, a lot of this value is derived from stocks and assets that have appreciated over time.
2. A publisher requires offices and warehouses to function. Warehouses less so these days, since physical copies of games aren't as big as they used to be, but they do own White Wolf and Harebrained Schemes, both of whom release physical books. They need buildings to print these, and a place to store copies until they're shipped. Offices, however, are 100% required. This includes PDS offices, since PDS is a direct holding of PDX. Its assets would have likely been purchased with PDX funds one way or another.
3. Here's the big one. Every single company that provides a product is interested in expansion. The purpose of making money is not to make a bunch of money and then float around in the pile. The purpose of making money is to invest into the company so you can make more money. Any business sim in a video game, no matter the complexity, is enough to teach this simple fact first hand. This means a good portion of their net worth is being continually circulated back into production, else they stop being a relevant company. It's simply the way of consumer business. There are no operating exceptions. Any exceptional cases have already liquidated by now.
Anyway, you're right about one thing: Pre-orders aren't required to keep the company afloat. However, I was addressing specifically the comment about Paradox not being a company that needs the support of its consumers, which is quite honestly a statement devoid of any knowledge about consumerism. Consumerism is an exchange of money for goods. If goods aren't being bought, the company is spending money on production and overhead that isn't getting replaced. This is what being in the red looks like, and it's a surefire way for a company to collapse.
Every single producer of consumer goods and services requires customer support. It's no different than saying, "<Restaurant> doesn't need your support, they're worth millions." If enough people switch to a different restaurant based on that assumption, that restaurant doesn't exist anymore.
- 4
- 4
Unfortunately nobody can answer these questions for you, because the game isn't being released until the beginning of next month. The best thing you could do would be to take a look at the information that is out there in the form of development diaries, streams, and so on. That's the best information you are going to get.
If you do decide to pre-order it, I'd recommend doing so through Steam. They have a no questions asked refund policy as long as you a) ask for a refund within two weeks of game release, and b) haven't played more than two hours of the game. While two hours is very little time, it's hopefully enough to know if you even want the game or not.
Hope this helps.
- 1
I preordered because of budgeting issues.
I had the money on hand and uncommitted at the time.
So I've used it before it became used for something else.
I had the money on hand and uncommitted at the time.
So I've used it before it became used for something else.
- 4
Personally I've played CK2 for >2000 hours, so for me I have pre-ordered to save money on the DLC's.
Other than that there's no real reason to pre-order... unless like me you just can't wait to play day 1.
Other than that there's no real reason to pre-order... unless like me you just can't wait to play day 1.
- 4
- 1
After imperator, emperor and the hoi4 latest releases, I will not be pre ordering anything from PDX again.
I will wait to see the fallout now.
I will wait to see the fallout now.
- 2
- 2
- 1
Imperator 1.0 was definitely fail, Emperor was released just before holidays, and HOI IV still lacks a SU DLC after so long.
- 2
- 1
Whatever the reason, there is a clear quality downturn in paradox's recent releases. But hey, they're making plenty of dosh though so who cares.
- 5
- 3
PDS has always been weak at tying up loose ends in their works. Quality-wise, CK2 only hit its peak with Holy Fury and then the Iron Century patch.
- 5
Sorry, quality? I think you and I have a different understanding of the definition of "quality" in that case. Whether or not you enjoyed Imperator: Rome, Stellaris, EU4... They were just fine, quality-wise. Certainly no worse off than their predecessors were. The worst thing I remember from Stellaris was lag between days, and that got fixed fairly quickly. Content-wise, all three games were plenty rich (though Imperator: Rome was rich with content many returning fans didn't enjoy the flavor of) so I don't see how that could be the issue, either.
- 9
- 2
@Olden Weiss
It is amazing that you go into a long explanation of corporate finance and business principles while apparently lacking basic knowledge about the subject, which is obvious from the first three paragraphs (not even knowing basic rules of financial reporting of public companies).
Want to support PDX by pre-ordering something? Fine, your choice. But I do not think you should be mentoring others on the matter you have little knowledge about.
It is amazing that you go into a long explanation of corporate finance and business principles while apparently lacking basic knowledge about the subject, which is obvious from the first three paragraphs (not even knowing basic rules of financial reporting of public companies).
Want to support PDX by pre-ordering something? Fine, your choice. But I do not think you should be mentoring others on the matter you have little knowledge about.
- 9
- 2
I never understood people who preorder any game, from any company. What's with that love of getting cats in a bag?
But I would even less preorder a pdx game. Basically none of their games since vic2 and ck2 were fun to play day one. Beta tester should be a paid work, or at least free for fans. Paying for that dubious privilege is exactly what are preorders.
But I would even less preorder a pdx game. Basically none of their games since vic2 and ck2 were fun to play day one. Beta tester should be a paid work, or at least free for fans. Paying for that dubious privilege is exactly what are preorders.
- 4
- 3
- 1
If you'd be so kind as to provide me links to their full ledger so I can examine each of their assets in depth, I'd be happy to retract my statement. Until then, however... I must respectfully suggest that this looks like hyperbole to me.
Edit: According to this report...
- Total revenue during the period amounted to $148.3M.
- Amounts receivable at the end of the period amounted to only $28.73M of this.
- Direct costs, primarily attributable to game development and royalties, amounted to $57.57M.
- Selling expenses amounted to $22.28M.
- Capitalized development amounted to $66.83M. This is money spent just during this one period to add new fixed assets, such as real estate, to whatever assets they've already invested into.
- Costs for property and equipment amounted to $3.75M.
But perhaps the only value that really needs addressing is this one:
- Cash and cash equivalents amounted to $28.73M of the company's ~$3.1B net worth. That means around 0.9% of the company's total net worth was, at the time of posting and during this financial period, attributable to cash or assets that can be immediately converted to cash.
Last edited:
- 6
- 5
Hyperbole? He didn't make any objective claims other than that your analysis was flawed, so where was the hyperbole?
(I'm not interested in becoming part of the conflict between the two of you, I just don't get what you're talking about here.)
- 6