Pre-oder worth it?

[Alspego]

Hi,

I have not followed much the dev diaries, streams, etc. related to CK3. I was disappointed by the release version of Imperator Rome due to a lack of content and interesting mechanics worth to play around. How does CK3 fair in this regard? I would expect that CK2 will have overall more content due to years of DLCs, but does CK3 provide enough new mechanics and ideas to compensate for that? How does the AI performance look like?

 

[Riamus]

I'd suggest watching the streams and youtube videos, not to mention reading the DDs. They'll give you a much better idea of whether or not you'll like the game than anything anyone here can say. Anything we say is our own opinion and may not apply to you. What you see yourself will allow you to form your own opinion.

That said, CK3 will not have all the content of CK2 (though it has other content not available in CK2) as it's the vanilla game and doesn't yet have any DLCs. That doesn't make it bad, though. CK2 felt pretty underwhelming when it first came out compared to what it is today, but I think from everything I've seen that CK3 will be very good right from the start.

 

[IntoTheStars]

I don't think anyone is going to be able to decide how best to spend your money. There will be plenty of footage out by the time of release if you can find some time to watch it.

I think the general consensus is almost certainly that it looks a far sight better than Imperator, though.

 

[Pied-Noir]

Hi,

I have not followed much the dev diaries, streams, etc. related to CK3. I was disappointed by the release version of Imperator Rome due to a lack of content and interesting mechanics worth to play around. How does CK3 fair in this regard? I would expect that CK2 will have overall more content due to years of DLCs, but does CK3 provide enough new mechanics and ideas to compensate for that? How does the AI performance look like?

Don't pre-order anything; it's a shoddy business practice people should get out of. If you think something looks good when it's released, buy it.

 

[Soviet_Mercader]

I have not followed much the dev diaries, streams, etc. related to CK3

For this fact alone I probably wouldn't recommend it for you to preorder at least until you do more research. If you haven't been excited enough to follow the development cycle, which is understandable considering the disappointment many experienced with IR, it would be foolish to preorder something you haven't looked into for a while. You can always wait for reviews since the release is less than 3 weeks away.

lack of content and interesting mechanics

Almost every system and mechanic from CK2 has either been expanded upon, tweaked or gotten rid of entirely. I honestly struggle to think of something that is truly untouched from CK2 that is still in CK3.

Plots has been overhauled into schemes, secrets, and hooks
Characters models are now 3D instead of 2D
Lifestyles have both been expanded upon
War has changed considerably with the change to levies, men at arms, knights, and advantage
Religion and the new faiths system is way more dynamic than in CK2
Vassal contracts is a new tool to manage your realm and replaces pieces of what Crown Authority and Realm Laws used to do
Technology has been replaced with the Cultural Innovations system
If any of these listed items interest you take a look at that specific dev diary

Navies to transport troops is gone entirely and armies now can automatically embark
No special Byzantine mechanics
No Nomads or Republics either
Less starting dates (only 867 and 1066)

I'm sure I'm missing other things added/changed/removed but this is a good starting point.

How does the AI performance look like?

Not really sure yet. We've only had 2 streams of the game so far. And judging the AI is hard to do without getting our own hands on the game.

 

[Razmorg]

You can pre-order for bonuses and then take your time once it's released to read reviews but refund on steam as long as you haven't played more than 2 hours as far as I know.

 

[Nikolai]

I'd suggest watching the streams and youtube videos, not to mention reading the DDs. They'll give you a much better idea of whether or not you'll like the game than anything anyone here can say. Anything we say is our own opinion and may not apply to you. What you see yourself will allow you to form your own opinion.

That said, CK3 will not have all the content of CK2 (though it has other content not available in CK2) as it's the vanilla game and doesn't yet have any DLCs. That doesn't make it bad, though. CK2 felt pretty underwhelming when it first came out compared to what it is today, but I think from everything I've seen that CK3 will be very good right from the start.

This. Also consider not preordering but trying out CK3 in Gamepass. It cost 1 USD for a trial of one month and there is no binding contract.

 

[Reidy]

the pre-order bonuses arent really important. if money is an issue id maybe suggest getting Gamepass (its always on deal for £1 here so maybe its the same where you're from?) you can play CK3 through gamepass so if you like it you can then buy it yourself.

 

[Olden Weiss]

Don't pre-order anything; it's a shoddy business practice people should get out of. If you think something looks good when it's released, buy it.

There are reasons to pre-purchase. For instance, I'm on a tight budget these days and I like to buy games I'm strongly anticipating ahead of time, so I know its paid for and I won't forget to budget for it. Companies also offer pre-order bonuses that, if you're confident in the company's work, are a few dollars saved if you pre-purchase.

Of course, you can get burned this way. But I've been burned at nice restaurants, as well. You gamble a little anytime you spend money. With the developers showing us so much of the game and its inner workings before launch, I don't see much difference in gambling now or later with CK3.

 

[witcher1701]

I pre-ordered just to support them. And they've basically already showed us everything about the game, there's no reason to think it will be bad. So really, it's not a big risk or anything.

 

[zorkman]

I haven't pre-ordered yet, but will certainly buy it on release as I did its predecessor. Loved that, & from what I have seen of this game, I will love this as well. I hardly ever buy games on release so this shows my expectations for this game.

 

[yezhanquan]

Don't pre-order anything; it's a shoddy business practice people should get out of. If you think something looks good when it's released, buy it.

Yeah, Day One purchase is pretty much it for me, unless the pre-order bonus is something I can't refuse.

 

[LordofLight]

Keep in mind I:R was by a different team within paradox with a different Director. And started development after CK3.

I feel like the abject failure of I:R, a game that sometimes rivals Vic2 in active player numbers (Hey Vic3 folk, maybe this is a good reason to push for Vic3), scared them straight. Or it might just be that its a different dev team. Regardless they are very open to feedback and addressed many concerns, even reworked the vassal contracts system. While they froze version 1.0 for release (as you need to do for the game to be reviewed and accepted on distribution platforms) it sounds like they already got a lot of fixes etc for 1.1

CK3 seems very hopeful. I:R's problems were obvious and pointed out by people way before release and were just brushed off and ignored. They were even somehow happy with the release version. At least someone was. Only for it to be realized after release that yes they are actually problems that need to be fixed. There's nothing that obviously wrong with the design, the very foundation, of CK3. If anything it looks super solid with them expanding on things that matter for the game. With large amounts of flexibility for modding as the icing on the cake.

I can't really point at anything in CK3 and go "This looks awful" despite viewing all the released material by Paradox and reviewers (even in German and Russian hah). But really I:Rs release should leave you skeptical.

Use the GamePass for $1 and see if its worth it. If it is buy it. If not just wait. Regardless you get to play Day 1 but pay practically nothing and lose practically nothing. It's great advice if you remain skeptical.

 

[Pied-Noir]

Good post, @LordofLight!

 

[LordofLight]

Thanks! I'm really hoping it turns out well. They did want to make EU:R without it being EU:R going by their presentation slide and that seems to have gone not as planned. I also didn't want to double post to make an addendum to my post but now's my chance without awkwardly stapling this on.

does CK3 provide enough new mechanics and ideas to compensate for that?

Religion and Culture systems have me excited. Religion specifically due to just how much you can CHANGE and MOLD to your liking. Just look at all that we know so far of it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tenets-and-religions-what-we-know-so-far.1390954/
This is insanely good. Culture is the same. They got some really interesting stuff in that's worth playing for.

 

[CrazyMe]

I pre-ordered just to support them. And they've basically already showed us everything about the game, there's no reason to think it will be bad. So really, it's not a big risk or anything.

It is funny when people say they bought something at PDX “just to support them”. Is this some charity or what? It is a big company that is worth billions of USD, generating very strong cashflow and profit.
I do not know your situation, but I would bet that the vast majority of players are financially not better off than PDX staff/owners. So I would try to find a better reason to buy their products than just to support PDX.

The game is likely to be good indeed, but I got burned at I:R and recent EU4 patch/dlc releases. And I want to see the actual release of CK3, get players feedback after it and be sure I am buying a good game. Some people want to pre-order? Fine, everyone is surely free to spend their money and take risks as they prefer.

 

[Pied-Noir]

@CrazyMe

I agree with you although I do think it's understandable that many people still hold the mentality they do re Paradox; I still think of them as the little company who make niche games with broken English. I still have Two Thrones on CD.

 

[Olden Weiss]

By the way, regarding new mechanics, a fellow on Steam recently gathered up the new content from the dev diaries. Some of this is returning content from base CK2, it seems, but some of it is what he calls new as well. The posts might interest you. (Mind, I haven't been through to proofread his posts as I don't have the patience for that much reading. Some of this could be inaccurate.)

All improved (from base CK2) and new features in CK3, Pt. 1 :: Crusader Kings III General Discussions

I've already made a post covering all the CK2 DLC content that's making its way into CK3's base game . With several weeks still to go, I thought I'd take the time to dig deep through the dev diaries and highlight all the new features I'm aware of in the game, as well as those which have been...

steamcommunity.com

All improved and new features in CK3, Pt 2 :: Crusader Kings III General Discussions

Part 1 here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1158310/discussions/0/2791621875946490714/ Religion Official thread Religious Hierarchy [!!] Tenets [!!] Main Doctrines Views on Gender, which will be either Male Dominated, Equal, or Female Dominated, I believe. Likely affects how you can tool the...

steamcommunity.com

It is funny when people say they bought something at PDX “just to support them”. Is this some charity or what? It is a big company that is worth billions of USD, generating very strong cashflow and profit.
I do not know your situation, but I would bet that the vast majority of players are financially not better off than PDX stuff/owners. So I would try to find a better reason to buy their products than just to support PDX.

First and foremost, Paradox isn't as big a company as most of its chief competitors. They're worth $3.1 billion or so, yes. SEGA, however, which publishes Total War, earns around $2.3 billion per year. Take-Two Interactive, owner of Civilization's publisher 2K Games, is worth somewhere close to $30 billion; nearly ten times what Paradox is worth. Comparatively, Paradox is still a reasonably small company that could use all the support we can give (so long as they continue to put out quality products).

I know it sounds ridiculous to say "support" when we're talking about billions, but consider this: That $3.1 billion is largely tied up in assets like offices and warehouses. (Alright, I'll concede "a lot of" on this point.) Further, companies don't simply sit on their cash. The more money a company has, the more they can put back into their products to make newer, better products. Right now, Paradox is the granddaddy of grand strategy, no question. But what if SEGA decided to start funding a grand strategy franchise of their own? In theory, they could be working with ten, fifteen, twenty times the budget Paradox is.

So is it fine to buy something to support a company who's doing work you enjoy? Absolutely. A company is never too big to be supported. Take away the support, and "very strong cash flow and profit" quickly becomes a dry well.

 

[Fediuld76]

Hi,

I have not followed much the dev diaries, streams, etc. related to CK3. I was disappointed by the release version of Imperator Rome due to a lack of content and interesting mechanics worth to play around. How does CK3 fair in this regard? I would expect that CK2 will have overall more content due to years of DLCs, but does CK3 provide enough new mechanics and ideas to compensate for that? How does the AI performance look like?

NO. Wait the first month until the game is out. Last few releases of PDX on either DLCs (EU4, Stellaris, HOI4) or games (I:R) have put me off pre-ordering.

I'd suggest watching the streams and youtube videos, not to mention reading the DDs. They'll give you a much better idea of whether or not you'll like the game than anything anyone here can say.

Thats the problem. I pre-ordered I:R based on the videos and streams. Same applied to HOI4 La Resistance (which I have turned off completely), Stellaris Federations. Hence I didn't pre-ordered the last EU4 DLC and was right by doing so at the end regardless the criticism. (first EU4 DLC didn't pre-ordered for years).

So I better get the game out, wait for people reactions and then access if worth the full price or wait until is discounted.

 

[McDanny]

@CrazyMe

I agree with you although I do think it's understandable that many people still hold the mentality they do re Paradox; I still think of them as the little company who make niche games with broken English. I still have Two Thrones on CD.

I mean, PDX announced record Q2 profits yesterday so the idea of preordering to "support" them feels somewhat redundant.

If I had pre-ordered (which admittedly I only haven't done because I'm getting my copy for free), it would have been for the preorder bonus and because I can just refund on Steam if the launch is bad, not because PDX is a cuddly little indie studio which needs my custom.