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Silesian Burd

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It's a bit weird that, from the Bronze Age (not realizing that more weapons beats fancier weapons) to the Steam Age (finally using gunpowder and just starting factories), Primitive Worlds have the same tier of armies. Is this because the advancement isn't uniform in those time periods?

My suggestion is to have a gradual improvement from the era of Knights to the era of Tanks. Maybe muskets and cannons matter, like in EU4.
-> A "Gunpowder Army" type could be halfway between Primitive and Industrial Armies in power.
-> There could be an event with losing (or simply performing, since I don't know if it's actually possible to lose to Primitive Armies) an invasion of a Steam Age or Late Medieval planet, where the primitives attribute their victory to gunpowder and rapidly switch to the "Gunpowder Army" or the "Industrial Army" type; the second option could be a simple as replacing the Warrior with Soldiers. This could be framed as the Death of the Knight, like how chivalrous knights lost their aura of invincibility in the Hundred Years' War:

"A great error has been made. In our endeavors to expend as few resources as possible for the conquest of [INSERT PLANET NAME HERE], we thought that our powered armor would hold against their bladed weapons and projectiles. Unfortunately the [INSERT PRIMITIVE SPECIES NAME HERE] had another weapon, a rudimentary variant of our mass drivers that propelled shots with the combustion of somewhat-volatile powder. The few shattered facemasks and impacted breastplates caught our soldiers off-guard, cascading into a complete loss of resolve against the enemy's superior numbers.

Our most grievous fault has shown the [INSERT PRIMITIVE SPECIES CIVILIZATION NAME HERE] which weapons work best for the investment put into them. Their nobles now put greater funding into mercenaries with those weapons, and the more powerful lords have begun to arm more of their peasantry with such weapons. Our second attempt may not be as easy as our first."


Alternatively, this could make the Primitives advance much more quickly; it could even be a Unity-tanking event, sacrificing some of your armies to make the Primitives pick up the pace.

I can see why the Primitives have as little to them as they do, since they're just that weak, but there's a lot that could be done with them.
 
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The5lacker

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I don't see how any of this improves gameplay at all. It just seems like complexity for complexity's sake about a mechanic that doesn't matter literally ever, because Primitive Armies cannot provide any flavor of adequate resistance to an invasion by an interstellar power. Beyond that it's just... another notification that doesn't mean anything. I'll be honest, I think Stellaris has plenty of those.
 
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Silesian Burd

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I don't see how any of this improves gameplay at all. It just seems like complexity for complexity's sake about a mechanic that doesn't matter literally ever, because Primitive Armies cannot provide any flavor of adequate resistance to an invasion by an interstellar power. Beyond that it's just... another notification that doesn't mean anything. I'll be honest, I think Stellaris has plenty of those.
I don't know, the game feels shallow sometimes. Lots of over-generalizations.
 
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3ishop

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Pretty much until they get up to the atomic age, their armies should be effectively 1 hit point and 1 damage. The change in weapons before that isn't going to do much. A blackpowder rifle isn't going to be any better against a modern tank than a stone sword, never mind a future one or a future air support. Once you get nuclear, they could risk nuking the invasion forces, but that might be more fitting for an event rather than an army buff, at least their anti-tank weapons might do something against ground forces.

Pre-space faring races could use improvements, I don't think armies are the thing though.
 
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Silesian Burd

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Pretty much until they get up to the atomic age, their armies should be effectively 1 hit point and 1 damage. The change in weapons before that isn't going to do much. A blackpowder rifle isn't going to be any better against a modern tank than a stone sword, never mind a future one or a future air support. Once you get nuclear, they could risk nuking the invasion forces, but that might be more fitting for an event rather than an army buff, at least their anti-tank weapons might do something against ground forces.

Pre-space faring races could use improvements, I don't think armies are the thing though.
But Assault Armies don't have tanks. That's one of the reasons Defense Armies are better.
 
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CIS

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As much as I'd like to see ground combat get some fleshing out, it really doesn't matter in this case.
If you're a space faring civ with fancy power armor or personal shields, it doesn't matter if the primitives you're invading have rocks or bullets, they're still going to get stomped. It's very unlikely for a space faring civ to be taken off guard because they would already know of their victim's tech level. That's pretty much what the observation post is for.
The best you can do is give more advanced primitive civs better armies, which is something I'm pretty sure they already do.
 

NotAYakk

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This looks intentional.

From the perspective of a galactic-scale civilization, anything pre-atomic age is children playing with sticks. The best they are going to do is wait for one of your troops to have a heart attack, then pick up their weapons and shoot back.

At atomic age they have kitchen knives.
 

Silesian Burd

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Well, think about it. What else would give Defense Armies the edge at the expense of not being shippable? Fortifications? Laser turret thingies? Nuclear landmines?
This looks intentional.

From the perspective of a galactic-scale civilization, anything pre-atomic age is children playing with sticks. The best they are going to do is wait for one of your troops to have a heart attack, then pick up their weapons and shoot back.

At atomic age they have kitchen knives.
At Industrial they have tanks and sarin gas and machine guns, or something...

I'm just a little greedy for flavor, I suppose. It's like "why aren't there plagues?" and "why aren't there cults?".
 
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Well, think about it. What else would give Defense Armies the edge at the expense of not being shippable? Fortifications? Laser turret thingies? Nuclear landmines?
Yes, exactly, fortifications. They are dug into a network of bunkers / trenches / whatever.
Of course an offensive army is going to have tanks.
 
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Well, think about it. What else would give Defense Armies the edge at the expense of not being shippable? Fortifications? Laser turret thingies? Nuclear landmines?
So that is just your headcanon, gotcha.
 
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Thomas Roderick

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Well, think about it. What else would give Defense Armies the edge at the expense of not being shippable? Fortifications? Laser turret thingies? Nuclear landmines?

At Industrial they have tanks and sarin gas and machine guns, or something...

I'm just a little greedy for flavor, I suppose. It's like "why aren't there plagues?" and "why aren't there cults?".
Or just pre-sighted artillery and shield generators, for that matter. What do you think those volatile motes (read: ammonium nitrate) in those fortifications are for? I just don't think it would be used for fertilizer. To properly defend a place, the best choice would be explosives, and lots of them. No matter your transport capacity, an expeditionary force would not have the necessary logistical train to keep them supplied for shelling an enemy position nonstop for weeks on end, afterall.
 

The5lacker

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I don't know, the game feels shallow sometimes. Lots of over-generalizations.
You're managing an entire galaxy. Of course things are going to be simplified and abstracted. Do you want an entire Sims game managing every single pop on every single planet too? Do you want complex physics simulations managing whether or not your fantastical spaceships can shoot a dragon? Do we need a popup every single time our Leaders have to abandon their tasks for a long bathroom break?

Complexity is not, in-and-of-itself, a good thing. It's a tool. Sometimes the appropriate level of tool for a given system is a very complex power tool with lots of customization and utility. Sometimes the appropriate tool is a screwdriver. When it comes to invading Primatives, we don't need a lot of complexity, because we have spaceships and they don't. It's not a fair fight. You don't need a complex simulation of an unfair fight. It's not a core part of the game, because it's not SUPPOSED to be a core part of the game, because the core part of the game is dealing with other spacefaring empires.
 
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The most Technologically advanced army on the planet with perfect information, just got beat by one of if not the most technologically primative forces on the planet, Tech isn't everything, if it was then the US would own Afghanistan rather than them beating the US. Having more granular improvements to armies for primitives isn't a bad thought, and we don't know if our Assault armies are composed of space marines in power armor with fully automatic handheld 120mm cannons or regular men in a flak vest with a flashlight. The idea that a basic rifle will not confer some increase in power is untrue, doesn't mean they are competing with assault army numbers though.

This all said bar none its a waste of time for the devs to implement this, they have not 0 but negative 5 interest in doing anything meaningful with ground combat and if you rolled a 6 and got to manipulate Paradox into doing something with it, primitives are not going to be the interesting part.

There is a chance devs may look into a primitives stories DLC which would be really cool and they may want to look at this idea if they decide to work on that DLC so you can have a more fleshed out xcom style defense but outside of that scenario it's just not worth bothering with.

I give up vote because I want that DLC, and primative armies could get slight number buffs via simple script changes.
 

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By default, yeah, early primitive armies should be a small speedbump.

But this is a game where strange things happen, like primitives finding the weapons of ancient lost civilizations, so if there's a Precursor digsite or remnant on a planet, then those primitives might have hyper-advanced weapons.

Now I want to see more primitives on (broken down) Shattered Ring segments and Relic Worlds.
 
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