Praise the Sun! Playing as Zunists in CK2 2.2

[Damarrocarion]

What? I'm talking about festivals and throwing people into the desert. If I play as a Zunist I can do none of those things, presumably because I don't have Charlemagne.

Oh, ok. Well, they were not in ToG initially and could not even been there until RoI so I do not see much problem with the fact. Plus in ToG start date there are exactly one playable Zunist (rapidly converted) and claim holder in Shahi shahdom available to mess around with

 

[Groogy]

I'll wait until they apply the hotfix to play Zun so I can properly raid and stuff, even if non-fixed gives me ultimogiture.

That is actually WAD
Also can someone finally do an AAR so I have something to read? :happy:

 

[Haldan]

That is actually WAD
Also can someone finally do an AAR so I have something to read? :happy:

I'm going to be the noob and ask what WAD stands for.

 

[CzokletMuss]

That is actually WAD
Also can someone finally do an AAR so I have something to read? :happy:

And what about raiding for Zunists?

Zun AAR? Tempting...

I'm going to be the noob and ask what WAD stands for.

WAD = working as designed (intended)

 

[Groogy]

I'm going to be the noob and ask what WAD stands for.

Its the mating sound of Developers.
No it stands for Working as Designed. Meaning nothing is wrong.

 

[Groogy]

And what about raiding for Zunists?

Zun AAR? Tempting...


WAD = working as designed (intended)

Yes, Zunists are not tribal and as such they do not raid.

I find it insulting that you would lower the Zunbils to the standards of Barbarians....
*Throws CzokletMuss into a pit in the desert*
YOU ARE NOW IN THE HANDS OF ZUN! MAY HE HAVE MERCY ON YOU!

 

[Kyoumen]

I don't appreciate how the special mechanics for this religion are part of the Charlie DLC but they're still playable outside of it. They're basically a flavorless boring Hellenic reskin for me. Shouldn't they have been in the patch since they fall within the domain of ToG?

They don't REALLY, though. There's like one courtier left somewhere, that's a pretty thin wedge to demand the full shebang with (and that kind of wedge is undoubtedly one of the reasons the devs keep refusing to have any living Hellenics even when you can make a reasonable case for it).

Really, given that you get 75% of every dlc/patch for free (including the tribal mechanics this time, for instance), it's hard to begrudge that you need to buy Charlemagne to get the full somewhat-less-than-Zoroastrians flavour of the Zun. Paradox could have easily locked them off entirely; as it is, there's still playable, can still be made in the Ruler Creator, the religion can be reformed, they have their "throw them in a pit and let Zun judge them" decision even if it's not actually working properly, they have its extra-large levies and immediately available Ultimogeniture, and have an icon. That's better than "West African" has, and you did buy a DLC to get that.

 

[CzokletMuss]

Yes, Zunists are not tribal and as such they do not raid.

I find it insulting that you would lower the Zunbils to the standards of Barbarians....
*Throws CzokletMuss into a pit in the desert*
YOU ARE NOW IN THE HANDS OF ZUN! MAY HE HAVE MERCY ON YOU!

Oh

Ha! You think a mere pit in the ground can stop me?!

[video=youtube_share;GPc7G0Cp91k]http://youtu.be/GPc7G0Cp91k[/video]

TIL Bane was a Zunist

 

[Damarrocarion]

Yes, Zunists are not tribal and as such they do not raid.

But...but...they are still Pagans! Does this mean when my Suomenusko reforms and becomes feudal around the grand fortress of Perm (ok, 10 feet tall wooden wall and cold stone bailey) I cannot raid anymore.

That is fairly bullcrap. You give this new nice Tribal mechanism but then remove what little useful remains of pagan faiths.

 

[Groogy]

But...but...they are still Pagans! Does this mean when my Suomenusko reforms and becomes feudal around the grand fortress of Perm (ok, 10 feet tall wooden wall and cold stone bailey) I cannot raid anymore.

That is fairly bullcrap. You give this new nice Tribal mechanism but then remove what little useful remains of pagan faiths.

Isn't that how its always been? When you become Reformed before you also gave up raiding, now its just when you go Feudal you can't raid anymore.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Isn't that how its always been? When you become Reformed before you also gave up raiding, now its just when you go Feudal you can't raid anymore.

No.

Pagan, reformed or not, could always raid before CM.

To borrow from Galaxy Quest: "Do you guys ever even play the game?"

 

[Kyoumen]

Incidentally, for those with Charlemagne, does the Zun holy order actually have a unique graphic like the other pagan holy orders do (if you got the appropriate DLC)? I'd love to see.

On a random other note, Groogy, since as I recall you're handling it, is it in fact true that Norse/Germanic now convert to EUIV even if not reformed and none of the other pagans do, and is this WAD or should I bug report it? I suppose it's vaguely possible the AI did it in my Zun game and I didn't notice, but that seems incredibly unlikely given it was TOG start and I'd played for only like 30 years.

 

[gorillacakes]

Wait can't the Hindus raid or am I wrong? If Hindus can then why not Zunists?

Also Groogy: Manichaeism as a new religion for next major expansion please! If Zunists and Ibadi are in then Manichaeism has even more reason. Bow before the TRUE Lord of Light and Justice!!!!

 

[Groogy]

No.

Pagan, reformed or not, could always raid before CM.

To borrow from Galaxy Quest: "Do you guys ever even play the game?"

Huh I was pretty sure you couldn't raid when you reformed, oh well damned game so big can't remember everything. And yes I do play the game, I want to point out that just like many others here on the forum I have 2 000 hours of play time on CK2, 3 000 on EU3 and 1 000 hours on EU4.

 

[gorillacakes]

Huh I was pretty sure you couldn't raid when you reformed, oh well damned game so big can't remember everything. And yes I do play the game, I want to point out that just like many others here on the forum I have 2 000 hours of play time on CK2, 3 000 on EU3 and 1 000 hours on EU4.

Yeah I also thought once you reformed you could no longer raid

 

[Damarrocarion]

Huh I was pretty sure you couldn't raid when you reformed, oh well damned game so big can't remember everything. And yes I do play the game, I want to point out that just like many others here on the forum I have 2 000 hours of play time on CK2, 3 000 on EU3 and 1 000 hours on EU4.

It is only fair that they can. After all, most of their lands are god-awful and worthless so being able to keep raiding is pretty vital for most. Do you think I play in Siberia because I enjoy the natural resources and climate?

So I do hope you do not remove this ability. Also, take a look on this thread for some ideas on Mazdan religious group. With CM, they and Pagans would deserve a bit more variation as Gorillacakes suggested.

 

[CzokletMuss]

Huh I was pretty sure you couldn't raid when you reformed, oh well damned game so big can't remember everything. And yes I do play the game, I want to point out that just like many others here on the forum I have 2 000 hours of play time on CK2, 3 000 on EU3 and 1 000 hours on EU4.

So can we expect a quick fix for raiding-less Zunists? :3

 

[Groogy]

So can we expect a quick fix for raiding-less Zunists? :3

Nah, then where would be the challenge of creating the Glorious Empire of the Sun?
The most prestigious empires were forged trough blood and iron, now go out there and subjugate the Abbasids! Zun is with you!

 

[Donelloth]

Wait, Hinduist can't raid anymore then?

 

[Damarrocarion]

Nah, then where would be the challenge of creating the Glorious Empire of the Sun?
The most prestigious empires were forged trough blood and iron, now go out there and subjugate the Abbasids! Zun is with you!

Ok, so Zun is like this at the moment based on CK2 wiki and personal observation? Can anyone confirm?

Attrition
Can ally with other Pagans via marriage = Tengri (others are too far)
Increased levies
Female temple holders (or at least female court chaplain)
Increased defensive/offensive power to heavy infantry (instead of usual homeland defense, makes sense since only three provinces are Zunist)
County conquest
Subjugation
Concubines
Convert to evade blob, repent later
Improved taxation = missionaries who walk to your dungeon and give you monie$ (seriously, in my game I got four missionaries to my jail in first two months. In other pagan games, missionaries are a rare occurrence)

Sun Festival
"More civilized than rest of you smelly lot!" = not stuck to gavelkind, feudal, no raiding. Lack of massive short reign penalty?
"Judged by the sun" (is this just elaborate "Execution" button or can it do something else, such as convert the guy to Zun and send him back to his lieges court?)

Reforming

Gain holy war
Gain GHW
Gain Holy Order
Gain all succession laws
Retain attrition?
Improved county conversion

With this in mind, Zun is at least slightly different from other Pagans so I guess we can live without raiding since they get other bonuses, being a mixture of defensive/offensive pagans.

Now go out there and make other Pagans different from each other like you did with Zun, so they are not totally...