PPC close range effect

[vparez]

A simple suggestion based on lore:

If the PPC is fired inside minimum range, and it hits the target, the firing mech should get the same kind of negative sensor effects as the targeted mech from the splash of particles.

In the lore this is the reason why PPC has a minimum safe range to fire.

I think it would make firing the PPC at short ranges different from other long range weapons. Instead of having an accuracy penalty, it would create a larger penalty for all weapons in the next turn. Could be an interesting tradeoff?

 

[TaurianMerc]

hmm, it's doable, but they would really have to come up with a radius of effect based on the minimum range, rather than just the target and firing mech being affected. So in TT min range is 3 hexes, so there should always be a radius equivalent to 3 hexes around the target 'mech that's affects all 'mechs friendly and hostile.

 

[The Shadowhawke]

The accuracy penalty is there because the particle beam isn't as focused under range.

The PPC is the feel good weapon among the energy type weapons in the game. It's...well...awesome, to watch an Awesome crank out an alpha strike. They look and sound cool when they fire, and they're among a short list of weapons in the game that reach out and send the opfor your regards spectacularly.

They're also heavy and chunky in their weapon class, and make a frigginton of heat when fired, meaning their use must be measured carefully.

The standard PPC has been in the game for nearly 35 years now...I feel we shouldn't look for more reasons to not use it.

 

[vparez]

Well, I didn't invent the minimum range for the PPC. If you want to abide by the 35 year old game rules you shouldn't even be able to fire it at close range. Unless disengaging the inhibitor is default in the current game?

 

[Gauntlet]

Well, I didn't invent the minimum range for the PPC. If you want to abide by the 35 year old game rules you shouldn't even be able to fire it at close range. Unless disengaging the inhibitor is default in the current game?

None of the game rules, that I recall, said you couldn't fire it, or any weapon with a minimum range, within that range. You could fire, you would just incur a penalty for doing so. So the inhibitor wouldn't need to be disabled for said firing.

I do wish HBS had implemented the field inhibitors of the PPC though. Would have made for, in my opinion, interesting tactical decisions.

 

[vparez]

I am not sure how exactly would be in TT, but in the lore the inhibitor prevents firing at less than 3 hexes. If you disable the inhibitor you can fire but then you risk the EM splash to affect your own mech. This is what I am suggesting; leave the inhibitor off by default (so that there is no need for additional buttons in the UI) but if the weapon hits at very close range let it affect the firing mech with a negative bonus for the next turn just like the target mech. I do think that would add to the tactical decision making and would not prevent anyone from using the PPC.

Edit: Moreover, this mechanic would give more value to the ER PPC in the game, as the ER is not affected by the same issue.

 

[Jade_Rook]

In TT, PPCs have a minimum range of 3 hexes. In that range there is a penalty to attack rolls which gets worse the closer the target is. At 3 hexes out it is a 1 point penalty. For adjacent targets it is a 3 point penalty (which makes the roll nearly impossible most of the time). The minimum ranges did not prohibit firing within that range. It just becomes more difficult to hit.

TT does have rules for disengaging the inhibitors to ignore the minimum range penalties with an associated chance for the PPC to explode. @Gauntlet helpfully linked to the Sarna article.

 

[vparez]

I fail to understand if we agree or not.

 

[Jade_Rook]

I fail to understand if we agree or not.

I was clarifying the TT rules. I was not starting a position on whether an additional effect would be a good idea.

Personally, I don't think PPCs need any additional rule. It creates additional complications both in programming and in explaining it to players. How should the game explain that this debuff will apply if the player takes a shot? I like the idea. I just think it is unnecessary.

 

[vparez]

The field inhibitors described in the sarna text have nothing to do with the accuracy penalty in this game.
If that is what was intended in this game then the PPC should have the damage drop off to 0 instead of accuracy penalties.
If these inconsistencies with the lore are not something to work on, then by all means disregard this thread.

[Mod edit: disrepectful]
Cheers!

 

[Jade_Rook]

The field inhibitors described in the sarna text have nothing to do with the accuracy penalty in this game.
If that is what was intended in this game then the PPC should have the damage drop off to 0 instead of accuracy penalties.
If these inconsistencies with the lore are not something to work on, then by all means disregard this thread.

By lore, I would agree that PPCs should be unable to fire on targets within a certain range or should deal no damage up close. That is not how they have generally worked in games. The implementation in this game (the accuracy penalty) is closer to the tabletop implementation than to the exact lore description. We are discussing the physical properties of a fictional weapon which wouldn't realistically work, at least not by current technological limitations. It should follow the lore as best as possible, but at some point good gameplay is more important than adherence to the lore. I am not sure that the current implementation is the best possible and welcome discussion of alternatives.

Personally, I think the minimum range penalties and how they are reduced by the Tactics skill could be reconsidered. For a high skill pilot, PPCs don't have a minimum range and that is inconsistent with the lore and tabletop gameplay. I would like to try having Tactics reducing the minimum range penalty instead of reducing minimum ranges. I don't remember if that is how it worked in the Backer Beta. I expect the devs have tried different skill bonuses related to minimum ranges and this is what worked best.

 

[The Shadowhawke]

This really only comes up in later campaigns when all your tactics are worked; earlier in the game when it's not, on the Panther for example, I'm not just angling for the shot and decent evasion, there's also a narrow sweet spot where the PPC and the SRM4 are both hitting on fine numbers.

IMHO, there's a quick fix. Assign the PPC a range minimum that overrules tactics mitigation. Boom, done.

 

[vparez]

My proposal was not to "fix" anything but to introduce a new feature for PPCs using the already existing game mechanics to bring it more in line with lore. That being said, I also think the PPC should have a recoil .