Post your ridiculous trade income

[Myrten]

Well you control 1/3 of the world so yes of course, you (and European trade powers) should be making cash



That's my point: the AI doesn't go above his naval limit so all this money would be not only lower overall, but also spread around more. That said, I don't really care about SP since everyone can play however they wish and enjoy the game their way. I respect the supply limit when I play, even as a trade power, but who cares, it's my SP game (or yours, etc).

In MP however, that's the issue. There is a reason naval supply exist and obviously currently, it's not working properly in relation to some trade settings (very specific I agree). I don't see why anyone would find any issue with being over supply be such a crazy a cash sink that nobody would want to do it unless VERY desperate and for very short periods.

My point is that in MP players wouldn't even have to go above this limit because if instead of competing with each other key players would make a deal then they wouldn't need this whole bunch of ships at all.

Keep in mind that for 90% of Nippon-Europe route European countries have exactly the same interest - move trade forward in specific direction, only competition is in Europe and if they make a deal to split the trade then they don't need much trade ships there.

 

[KevUK]

There was something special about the first three EU game after all. I hope I am not alone.

 

[Danarca]

I've been working on something related to this today.
Here's the trade map with arrows indicating directions, kinda messy though.

Spoiler

Here's the max coverage of the Constantinople node, if that makes any sense.

Spoiler

And the first 3 layers of the Sevilla node

Spoiler

I'm having a hard time properly presenting the nodes visually...

 

[Myrten]

I've been working on something related to this today.
Here's the trade map with arrows indicating directions, kinda messy though.

Spoiler

Here's the max coverage of the Constantinople node, if that makes any sense.

Spoiler

And the first 3 layers of the Sevilla node

Spoiler

I'm having a hard time properly presenting the nodes visually...

Nice work

 

[Danarca]

Nice work

Thanks
Here's the max coverage of Sevilla

Spoiler

 

[Maggix]

Was kinda suspecting that the ironman mode had no real protection at all, just forced autosaves to get achievements is what it is, which I find rather stupid.

I think Ironman is meant for those people who cannot stop themself from reloading a save once or twice. I don't think it was ever meant to be some kind of 1337 mode.

 

[Antonius66]

Yeah I think I need a better primer on how trade works exactly...the whole moving it along instead of collecting, etc. I had a ton of trade as Spain in my last game but I am sure I could have been doing it a lot better.

 

[Myrten]

Thanks
Here's the max coverage of Sevilla

Spoiler

Nice

You know what could be nice? If you could create a color-scale map with number of nodes which can be linked to that particular node - for example:
All entry nodes are Red
All exit nodes are Green
Malacca doesn't have that many nodes entering - it's light red
Sevilla has many but not max - so it's light Green etc..

This could be very useful when deciding where to put capital etc....

I think Ironman is meant for those people who cannot stop themself from reloading a save once or twice. I don't think it was ever meant to be some kind of 1337 mode.

Problem is that Paradox limited achievements to Ironman so they would 'mean something'..........

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

I'd go with France or even better through Spain and France - the longer the route and the more AI pulls the trade the bigger $$$

Right...can't England just let France and Spain take the trade up to Sevilla and Bordeaux and steal all the trade with light ship spam? They wouldn't even need a merchant, right(well, maybe in Bordeaux to prevent it from going to Antwerpen)?

 

[Myrten]

Right...can't England just let France and Spain take the trade up to Sevilla and Bordeaux and steal all the trade with light ship spam? They wouldn't even need a merchant, right(well, maybe in Bordeaux to prevent it from going to Antwerpen)?

Sure, but you would need one more merchant. So to do this and not suffer on another part of the route I guess that England would have to be a republic (I guess it can stay a republic after civil war) to get one more merchant from Plutocracy idea group. This could work nice with English embargo bonus so you can give it a try and share the results with us

 

[Antonius66]

So, as Spain controlling all of Iberia, a good chunk of North Africa, some pieces of France, and ALL of South America and 90% of North America, along with a large amount of the pacific islands/Australia/se Asian islands..what should my trade be per month? Trying to get an idea of how bad I was doing.

 

[Danarca]

So, as Spain controlling all of Iberia, a good chunk of North Africa, some pieces of France, and ALL of South America and 90% of North America, along with a large amount of the pacific islands/Australia/se Asian islands..what should my trade be per month? Trying to get an idea of how bad I was doing.

As far as I can tell, it's all about having enough merchants, since that means you can build your chain longer.
Once you get a chain going you should be able to continually build caravels which will further increase your trade power in the nodes.

But as you can see from the maps I made, North America is completely useless for a Spanish nation, so that might've slowed your income down.
Also, I wouldn't say it means you're bad if you don't do these super-long chains, they are pretty broken ATM, and is only really of interest to powergamers

Nice

You know what could be nice? If you could create a color-scale map with number of nodes which can be linked to that particular node - for example:
All entry nodes are Red
All exit nodes are Green
Malacca doesn't have that many nodes entering - it's light red
Sevilla has many but not max - so it's light Green etc..

This could be very useful when deciding where to put capital etc....


Problem is that Paradox limited achievements to Ironman so they would 'mean something'..........

Ah, so a node like Antwerpen with 5 entries would be as green as it can get, while the gulf of Aden with its 2-inc 3-out would be red? Transfer nodes like Zanzibar would be yellow I guess..
Seems like an interesting idea, I'll look into it

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Sure, but you would need one more merchant. So to do this and not suffer on another part of the route I guess that England would have to be a republic (I guess it can stay a republic after civil war) to get one more merchant from Plutocracy idea group. This could work nice with English embargo bonus so you can give it a try and share the results with us

I can even change to merchant republic for 2 extra merchants, but I'm not sure how to become a republic...

Edit: Couldn't I just replace the merchant in Tunis with one in Bordeaux, and let the AI steer from Ivory Coast-> Mauritanean Coast->Seville?

 

[Myrten]

So, as Spain controlling all of Iberia, a good chunk of North Africa, some pieces of France, and ALL of South America and 90% of North America, along with a large amount of the pacific islands/Australia/se Asian islands..what should my trade be per month? Trying to get an idea of how bad I was doing.

It doesn't really matter how much you control, what matters is do you control the trade from China to Europe and to what degree, income from taxation\gold\production\tariffs is irrelevant later on when playing

Ah, so a node like Antwerpen with 5 entries would be as green as it can get, while the gulf of Aden with its 2-inc 3-out would be red? Transfer nodes like Zanzibar would be yellow I guess..
Seems like an interesting idea, I'll look into it

Actually I meant total number of nodes from which trade that can get into it, not only direct ones so Bordeaux can get more then Seville which can get more than Venice which can get more then Constantinople etc...
Sorry for confusion

I can even change to merchant republic for 2 extra merchants, but I'm not sure how to become a republic...

Edit: Couldn't I just replace the merchant in Tunis with one in Bordeaux, and let the AI steer from Ivory Coast-> Mauritanean Coast->Seville?

I'm pretty sure that England can change to a republic with Cromwell in Civil War events, although I'm not sure if it's possible to change it to merchant republic.

Sure you can replace merchants, generally the rule is: the more stops the more income but harder to control. My route to Seville later on also went through Genoa additionally to increase income.

 

[ANO1453]

I've been working on something related to this today.
Here's the trade map with arrows indicating directions, kinda messy though.

Spoiler

Here's the max coverage of the Constantinople node, if that makes any sense.

Spoiler

And the first 3 layers of the Sevilla node

Spoiler

I'm having a hard time properly presenting the nodes visually...

Uh, apparently I was the only silly guy to paint the map by hand instead of using a shortcut key (I assume you used a shortcut key, which I still don't know what one is):

Spoiler

 

[Antonius66]

So should I only be collecting trade from Sevilla and using merchants to send it upstream in all the others? I have read the posts on trade and such but it is not exactly spelled out clearly to me, other than a bigger share of the trade power leads to more of the income for you (i.e. more boats, more trade power buildings).

I mean, is the key to send a merchant to send trade up in each market before Sevilla in a chain and then collect in Sevilla? I was just sending them to collect trade in the markets that had the largest income and I had a good share in it.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

I'm pretty sure that England can change to a republic with Cromwell in Civil War events, although I'm not sure if it's possible to change it to merchant republic.

Sure you can replace merchants, generally the rule is: the more stops the more income but harder to control. My route to Seville later on also went through Genoa additionally to increase income.

Hmm, the English civil war event can only fire between 1600 and 1700, and has a MTTH of 167 years, so I'm not certain to get it...

There is a "Adopt Plutocratic Administration" which lets one change from a Republican Dictatorship to a Merchant Republic


Also, I'm not certain I can get AI France to steer from Ivory Coast->Timbuktu->Tunis like you did...

 

[Tiaexz]

This is pretty much out of reach to do in a real game, unless you have easy mode on and some other modifiers to allow you to simply blob. Going above colonial limit starts costing you 30 ducats per month, then there are the other powers which make life very hard and difficult.. even then, MP games I have been in are very cut throat, people fight over the possibility of getting 50 ducats, then they post-office spammed their home provinces to deny value leaving. There is a merchant navy fleet at Seville of 100 just to redirect 20 ducats to Bordeaux...

Sounds like the biggest issue with the naval force limit.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

This is pretty much out of reach to do in a real game, unless you have easy mode on and some other modifiers to allow you to simply blob. Going above colonial limit starts costing you 30 ducats per month, then there are the other powers which make life very hard and difficult.. even then, MP games I have been in are very cut throat, people fight over the possibility of getting 50 ducats, then they post-office spammed their home provinces to deny value leaving. There is a merchant navy fleet at Seville of 100 just to redirect 20 ducats to Bordeaux...

Sounds like the biggest issue with the naval force limit.

"real game"=MP?

I'm not sure why you think he had to go over the colony limit...colonization is actually surprisingly fast in EU4

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

However fun it is to break the game, this is obviously a major balance issue.

I must disagree.

If it was obviously a major balance issue, then this would be a problem in SP and MP alike, depending on the countries chosen to play and compete with, and it isn't.

You can dominate trade in SP with just about any country you choose and in MP you will face real competition for trade (unless a trading cartel forms that is strong enough to discourage all non-members from even attempting to trade), which shows that what this is is an obvious AI issue - the AI not being good enough at competing at playing the trading game - not a balance issue.

And AI issues are best addressed by improving the AI, not by getting rid of mechanics that AI isn't good at. The latter is occasionally the only way out, but the former is absolutely preferable.