• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Alexander Seil

Philosopher of the Future
57 Badges
Aug 10, 2001
8.512
1.694
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
ubik said:
Actually, I don't think so. They are as good as the next Lara Croft movie. Trash wrapped up in nice graphics.

The challenge of a true game is more about designing a simple interface that provides the biggest amount of possible options and gives meaningful results based on them. This is clearly not true of 90% of the junk produced by game companies today. The more mainstream the game, the bigger the possibilities of buying trash.

Calling games "art", well... We will see how many will stand the test of time. But yes Chess or Go can be considered "art". ;)

Did you ever play any of those games? Just out of morbid curiosity...:wacko:

A game is supposed to excite one's imagination, otherwise it becomes an exercise in accounting.
 

unmerged(514)

MM Dev Team
Dec 4, 2000
18.552
72
Visit site
Alexander Seil said:
Did you ever play any of those games? Just out of morbid curiosity...:wacko:

A game is supposed to excite one's imagination, otherwise it becomes an exercise in accounting.

Sure, I try most of the garbage, at the very least to write about it later...

I obviously agree a game must excite one's imagination. Never said anything to counter that.

But this has nothing to do with Rome, which is certainly a game that catches one's imagination, that leads to some complex decisions on the part of the player and that has modding capabilties to make it deeper and more complex still, without being boring.
 

John Tzimisces

Captain
76 Badges
Dec 13, 2006
384
7
www.twcenter.net
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
Alexander Seil said:
But Epirus should be able to field a 20,000 army. Why not? Doesn't strike me as impossible, and is not contradicted in ancient sources. Certainly, if they couldn't, Pyrrhus wouldn't be all that impressive.
Ok, you're not understanding.
Macedon has a land forcelimit of FOUR. That's a four thousand man army right there. Anything more than that and financial penalties are incurred. It has manpower of something like 40,000.

Epirus isn't evaluating Macedon based on a present threat: Macedon can have that 4,000 man army (Rome doesn't like to put too many troops in it's Illyrian province right there, either) and epirus will simply just keep on building units until it can no longer afford to do so, or simply runs out of able bodied males. Presuming the AI uses manpower the same way as the human this has potentially really bad consequences for it's effectiveness, as A. it will have a large army in war, but then have no manpower to actually slug it out, and B. devote most of it's money towards warmaking. I haven't seen enough to observe whether or not the AI is spending a lot of money on developing provinces.
 

SonofWinter

007
42 Badges
Jun 28, 2004
4.789
1.117
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
John Tzimisces said:
Ok, you're not understanding.
Macedon has a land forcelimit of FOUR. That's a four thousand man army right there. Anything more than that and financial penalties are incurred. It has manpower of something like 40,000.

Epirus isn't evaluating Macedon based on a present threat: Macedon can have that 4,000 man army (Rome doesn't like to put too many troops in it's Illyrian province right there, either) and epirus will simply just keep on building units until it can no longer afford to do so, or simply runs out of able bodied males. Presuming the AI uses manpower the same way as the human this has potentially really bad consequences for it's effectiveness, as A. it will have a large army in war, but then have no manpower to actually slug it out, and B. devote most of it's money towards warmaking. I haven't seen enough to observe whether or not the AI is spending a lot of money on developing provinces.
I gave a few gifts to the Helvetti as Rome. And guess what they did?

They built a forum and a stockade. Kept their 4 units and didn't increase their army. I guess we don't have to worry too much about over-building an army, eh?

Although, as you've pointed out, I've seen the bloody Greeks, build some huge monster armies and wail away at eachother and even at me.

BY THE WAY JOHAN: TY for the spacebar pause thing, I'm glad that's in the full game, I was getting worried there for a second. :D
 

lucaluca

Exotic traveler
48 Badges
Dec 7, 2003
4.105
195
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
pierreluc said:
I only played one go through, and I enjoyed the game well enough. I understand this is a demo and not everything is enabled, so I will hold off from any firmer judgment.

I do have one worry, from reading the AARs and from my one game. It seems fairly easy to mobilize and sustain large armies for the starting empires, and it seems impossible to build any meaningful resistance for the small states. Is the ease with which for instance the Seleucids simply conquer Asia within a decade working as designed? I am just concerned that this game appears very susceptible to "blobbing", especially since (though I may be wrong), states do not seem to fragment (though I've seen civil wars, but the two sides did not form different states).

Just a 2 cents

well I had total a different game. There was no blobbing as all the states waged wars but conquered very little to ecah other. Seleucids had CONSTANT civil wars and were always divided... They survived somehow up to the end but were starting to go down.

I found the balance in those 2 games I played excellent, that's what I liked most IMO.

And why do states should fragment? Which states fragmented during the era? I can't recall any. This is not CK...
 

Garak

Field Marshal
89 Badges
Feb 29, 2008
3.324
427
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
STGeorge said:
Sorry if I touched a nerve, but even I, with my limited experience can see that EU:Rome (the clues in the name) is a hybrid of your previous reincarnations. Im just left with the feeling, rightly or wrongly....that the EU carnations are getting tired..groan, yet more provinces to own or conquer.

Or maybe it's just you.
 

unmerged(23721)

Second Lieutenant
Dec 20, 2003
185
0
wynandmeyering said:
Let me know if you need a game tester, but I need to be paid for my time as I am an desktop appliction software developer myself and in my 30s. I do play 12 or more hours a week, so I can use that time to make suggestions, but you need to pay me a competitive market related salary for a game tester.
Contact: wynandmeyering@webmail.co.za

This part right here made my day. Are you for real? :rofl:
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.579
19.869
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
SonofWinter said:
Although, as you've pointed out, I've seen the bloody Greeks, build some huge monster armies and wail away at eachother and even at me.

I think this is because the one province minors in Greece are much wealthier and have more manpower (and higher support values to prevent attrition from killing their army) than the Gallic tribes. I'm also fairly certain that the Greek minors have much better trading opportunities.
 

delra

Master of Orion
34 Badges
Jan 27, 2008
26.138
543
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
Secret Master said:
I think this is because the one province minors in Greece are much wealthier and have more manpower (and higher support values to prevent attrition from killing their army) than the Gallic tribes. I'm also fairly certain that the Greek minors have much better trading opportunities.
Sparta has support limit of 3 units if i remember correctly. Doesn't seem to be high.
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.579
19.869
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
wynandmeyering said:
1. The senators have much more money than Rome: some have 19000 vs. Rome's 40. Clearly there needs to be a perfect balance between the treasury of Rome and that of senators.

I can't find Johan or King's quote, but somewhere around here either of them pointed out that Wealth and gold in the government's treasury are two totally different things. Each "dollar" of wealth is off by orders of magnitude of each "dollar" of government gold.

2. The skills of Roman senators are too narrow to each other. A senator has to start with say: 1 - 5 in natural ability and then through governing provinces, war, diplomacy etc. gain the 6 - 10.
3. The units also need far more distinction: veteran units, green etc.
4.Tax income need to be organized: if you want a senator to become wealthy by assigning him to a wealthy province, so that he can steal, you need a list that shows trade etc. it is difficult to assign the senators to the wealthiest provinces. Also get rid of the corruption index: the user must be allowed to SET the level of corruption he wants his senator to be. If that senator becomes too greedy, he must risk being charged by corruption.

Well, you're not really playing the individual characters. You're the Grey Eminence running the country, through whoever happens to be in charge at the moment (king, consul, whoever).

5. What use is Rome if you control all the senators. Divide Rome into factions, your faction fighting for positions in the senate. Each position in the senate needs to have advantages. If you control censorship, you can decide where to attack, if you control Rome, you are be able to assign your own faction senators, to the senate. The player has too much control of Rome, he needs to fight for Rome, for power, for privileges. He needs a challenge, a goal and a reward if his faction completes it successfully.

It sounds like you want to play something closer to Crusader Kings, where character is more important than playing the country in question. Besides, who said you control all the factions? Play the demo and then go back through the game logs. You will see all kinds of character events firing for characters in your own country that you have no control over at all.

He needs to be able to bribe senators and assassinate others.
There are a number of intrigue missions that you can perform, including assassinations. In fact, I've been known to assassinate ambitious generals whom I feared would try to overthrow the government. There are consequences, however...

6. Rome had many generals turning against Rome with armies. A lot more intrigue is needed, the senators are too loyal.

You should take a look at the AARs . There is at least one civil war started by a disloyal general in King's Macedonia AAR, not to mention the others (in mine, I managed to not suffer this problem). I also think others have seen civil wars striking other factions during their time playing the demo.

7. Probably the worst concept that is holding the game back is the colonization only if a certain level of advancement has been reach. Rome was free to attack anyone, to expand at any pace. The challenge will be to get a balance between expansion and control.

I think the current colonization system is balanced as it is. Those who really want to paint the map with their country's color can do so, but the people and the infrastructure (civilization rating) have to come from somewhere. The demo is fairly short, so not a lot of colonization gets done. If you go read the AARs I mentioned earlier, you might get a better sense of just how much colonization can take place.
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.579
19.869
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
delra said:
Sparta has support limit of 3 units if i remember correctly. Doesn't seem to be high.

Hmmm, if I don't miss my guess, you're not playing Sparta. You're playing someone else and just looking at the map of Sparta. If memory serves, when you don't own the province in question, the support limit displayed is the one that would affect invaders (like yourself, should you choose to do so). Support values for owners are much higher.
 

Alexander Seil

Philosopher of the Future
57 Badges
Aug 10, 2001
8.512
1.694
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
In my opinion, this whole colonize-teh-whole-map business is ridiculous. From what I've seen in the AARs, colonization seem to be either too easy, or too profitable. The Greeks never expanded beyond the Danube, even though they founded colonies as far as Iberia.
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.579
19.869
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
Alexander Seil said:
In my opinion, this whole colonize-teh-whole-map business is ridiculous. From what I've seen in the AARs, colonization seem to be either too easy, or too profitable. The Greeks never expanded beyond the Danube, even though they founded colonies as far as Iberia.
In Rome, colonization comes with both benefits and drawbacks. The longterm issues with colonization don't become apparent within the time span of the demo or King's AAR. And he only colonized because people told him to do so. :)

Colonization certainly is nowhere near as profitable as it is in EU3. And just because you can colonize doesn't mean you should.
 

delra

Master of Orion
34 Badges
Jan 27, 2008
26.138
543
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
Secret Master said:
Hmmm, if I don't miss my guess, you're not playing Sparta. You're playing someone else and just looking at the map of Sparta. If memory serves, when you don't own the province in question, the support limit displayed is the one that would affect invaders (like yourself, should you choose to do so). Support values for owners are much higher.
Yeah, what a confident point you've made. Now see the link:

http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spartaiw4.jpg
 

Alexander Seil

Philosopher of the Future
57 Badges
Aug 10, 2001
8.512
1.694
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
You people are talking about different support limits. The support limit you're talking about, delra, is not supposed to be a "hard cap."
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.579
19.869
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
delra said:
Yeah, what a confident point you've made. Now see the link:

http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spartaiw4.jpg

We're not talking about the same support values.

Secret Master said:
(and higher support values to prevent attrition from killing their army)

I was referring to province support values, which dictates attrition. Having a high support value in the province would allow you to maintain a large standing army without worrying about it dying off.
 

Darkrenown

Star marshal
142 Badges
Jan 8, 2002
24.761
16.975
no
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Ancient Space
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
delra said:
Yeah, what a confident point you've made. Now see the link:

http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spartaiw4.jpg

And? You do know you can built an army much bigger than your "force limit", right? It just costs more.

Playing as Rome in the demo my army is often 2 or 3 times my force limit. Once the Greeks DoWed me and each minor fielded about 30k with the Macedonians having 50k.
 

Gathenhielm

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEE!
75 Badges
May 15, 2002
2.701
2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
Alexander Seil said:
In my opinion, this whole colonize-teh-whole-map business is ridiculous. From what I've seen in the AARs, colonization seem to be either too easy, or too profitable. The Greeks never expanded beyond the Danube, even though they founded colonies as far as Iberia.
I managed to colonize two provinces as Macedonia in the 30 year timespan of the demo. My guess is that it will take roughly 40 years from a province to go from 10 to 50% civilization, if you don't get events. With the games time-span of 253 years you will probably get 6 layers of colonization. Add events and that many pronvinces has more than 10% civilization I would get it up to perhaps 10 layers or perhaps a few more. This places most countries at the edge of the map, so yes there should some concern.

On the other hand while playing Macedonia I never felt that colonization was too fast, in fact I think it was quite frustratingly slow. I think it will be fun to see when the game is released how quick it really will be.

(Also you should note that King's AAR spanned 130 years, more than half the game's timeframe).
 

Alexander Seil

Philosopher of the Future
57 Badges
Aug 10, 2001
8.512
1.694
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
It's not that I dispute that it was possible for Hellenistic kings to create colonies. In fact, in practice they were less restricted and could create colonies of military veterans almost anywhere (Seleucia on the game map is an example, note that it's Greek/Greek in a sea of Ahuramazda-worshipping Assyrians).

The problem is that colonies could be excessively profitable in the game.