The Gallic provinces are fortified in the demo. The real problem I saw was that the AI set off with pretty much all of their units towards my provinces when I had an army next to their territory.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I thought I saw a screenshot with Barbarian Towns unfortified. Must have been late last night when I was slipping into sleep.
Far too much rebel territory, which just brings back the WORST part of the Total War games IMO.
Luckally this game will be moddable and there probably will be some kind of mod eventually that will include more factions. As it stands right now that is the biggest feature that annoys me. IMO, if possible, the provinces in the game should be close to 80% or higher in terms of having some kind of nation controlling it, not less than 50%. It will only lead to an empty boring game later on.
Something else that annoys me though is that I would like some kind of a better interface when dealing with appointing governors and dealing with trade routes. I find what is included to be lacking.
A bigger map, like what is in the EB mod for RTW, would of been nice. It should of been expanded south and east where there are also more nations to add like Baktria, Indo-Greek kingdoms, mauryans, Yemen, Ethiopia, and other arabs.... Since that area is so populated with various kingdoms that would of saved my annoyance at the fact that there is so much "rebel territory". It would of also of made Seleucia and Egypt more challenging/fun. Its strange to have a game set in this period to not include the near-east territories that were "visited" by Alexander the Great. It should of at least included ALL of the greek world.
All in all, i will buy the game but consider it a work in progress. I would expect patches/expansions but since I trust Paradox to do that I have no qualms with buying it now. They fixed all the issues I had with EU3.
Luckally this game will be moddable and there probably will be some kind of mod eventually that will include more factions. As it stands right now that is the biggest feature that annoys me. IMO, if possible, the provinces in the game should be close to 80% or higher in terms of having some kind of nation controlling it, not less than 50%. It will only lead to an empty boring game later on.
Something else that annoys me though is that I would like some kind of a better interface when dealing with appointing governors and dealing with trade routes. I find what is included to be lacking.
A bigger map, like what is in the EB mod for RTW, would of been nice. It should of been expanded south and east where there are also more nations to add like Baktria, Indo-Greek kingdoms, mauryans, Yemen, Ethiopia, and other arabs.... Since that area is so populated with various kingdoms that would of saved my annoyance at the fact that there is so much "rebel territory". It would of also of made Seleucia and Egypt more challenging/fun. Its strange to have a game set in this period to not include the near-east territories that were "visited" by Alexander the Great. It should of at least included ALL of the greek world.
All in all, i will buy the game but consider it a work in progress. I would expect patches/expansions but since I trust Paradox to do that I have no qualms with buying it now. They fixed all the issues I had with EU3.
I was going to say "lock the sliders", but then I halted myself just in time to say it in the disguise of this commentMr. G said:
Anyhow, you guys really did a good job with the AI, i'm getting my ass whipped
As for the rest, this is a really great game, although I fear it won't be able to hold more than a couple of months when compared to EU2 and Vicky (and the release of In Nomine, not to forget)
What i'm missing is ways to control my neighbours and tributary kingdoms. Just like in EU3 i find that wars quickly turn into vicky-style front-based wars rather than army-based ones, this may be because my armies have only been fighting in relatively confined areas.
agv said:
One neat thing would be to make this dependent on difficulty, or an option to turn on at the start of the game that made the numbers 'fuzzier' or only revealed after someone had been in that position for a while.
You'd know someone had the 'aggressive' trait, or whatever, but their military skill would be a ? until they'd fought a couple battles.
The demo is impressive and I'm going to buy it first day. I did notice that if as Rome, I abandon Spain, Carthage doesn't send an army over the pyrennes to attack me.I think this is a bit odd, as historically it was a key part of the Carthaginian plan for victory. Was this just a glitch? Has anybody had an AI Carthage invade Italy?
I too, am impressed. Although, the Romans were easy pickings for me when I played Carthage. I chewed through them and made them give up all of N. Italy, all the way to Apulia. When I played Rome on the other hand. All I could get was a W. Peace. Not sure why, but I just couldn't get Rome to win the war.
Also, I do hope to see some claims in the full game for Republics. I got one as Dictator of Rome, but no claims while I was a Republic, in either the Rome or Carthage scenario.
I also hope that the AI isn't using some special attrition rules. As I played Rome, I kept seeing my enemies move around monstrous armies of 30+ units. Seemed a bit unfair, that the most I could have was 20, if that much.
Also, I do hope to see some claims in the full game for Republics. I got one as Dictator of Rome, but no claims while I was a Republic, in either the Rome or Carthage scenario.
I also hope that the AI isn't using some special attrition rules. As I played Rome, I kept seeing my enemies move around monstrous armies of 30+ units. Seemed a bit unfair, that the most I could have was 20, if that much.
I am a longtime fan of Paradox games, but I must say that this looks promising, but far from finished.
My biggest gripes are:
1) The AI absolutely refuses to surrender territory. As Rome, I had conquered almost all of Carthaginean North Africa (apart from the two westernmost provinces), the Baleares and a province in Hispania.
I had a warscore of 86 %, and I tried many peace offers which were stated as "better than they could expect", only to be refused every single time. Even when I just asked for the single most lowly province, they refused me. Only a white peace would be accepted. And this was on medium difficuilty.
Basically this meant that is was impossible to win the war, however much I crushed them.
How about a new approach to this? Why not let ownership of a province transfer when it has been conquered, and not just when a treaty has been signed? This is the ancient world we are talking about, not a place of law and order.
2) My military commanders kept dying of old age, but with no special notification, as when a province governer dies. This means that you constantly have to watch your units, to see that they are properly commanded.
Why not add an option to automatically assign leaders, as in HoI2?
3) Even with a ratio of 10+ to one, assaulting a city seems just about impossible. I have even had a 100 man garrison beat off my 10,000 man strong army of HI. Sure sieges should be hard, but this is ridiculous.
4) You cannot assign new leaders to an army engaged in a siege. Since leaders dies frequently, and sieges takes forever (because of 3)..), this is a major problem.
5) As for the demo itself, I dont think you will be making new fans by dropping them into control of a major power, engaged in a major war, without a tutorial. Being able to learn the basics with a small power would have been nice.
So to summarize, I hope this demo is indicative of a fairly early beta stage, not something close to what you are planning to release.
If the former is the case, then keep up the good work
My biggest gripes are:
1) The AI absolutely refuses to surrender territory. As Rome, I had conquered almost all of Carthaginean North Africa (apart from the two westernmost provinces), the Baleares and a province in Hispania.
I had a warscore of 86 %, and I tried many peace offers which were stated as "better than they could expect", only to be refused every single time. Even when I just asked for the single most lowly province, they refused me. Only a white peace would be accepted. And this was on medium difficuilty.
Basically this meant that is was impossible to win the war, however much I crushed them.
How about a new approach to this? Why not let ownership of a province transfer when it has been conquered, and not just when a treaty has been signed? This is the ancient world we are talking about, not a place of law and order.
2) My military commanders kept dying of old age, but with no special notification, as when a province governer dies. This means that you constantly have to watch your units, to see that they are properly commanded.
Why not add an option to automatically assign leaders, as in HoI2?
3) Even with a ratio of 10+ to one, assaulting a city seems just about impossible. I have even had a 100 man garrison beat off my 10,000 man strong army of HI. Sure sieges should be hard, but this is ridiculous.
4) You cannot assign new leaders to an army engaged in a siege. Since leaders dies frequently, and sieges takes forever (because of 3)..), this is a major problem.
5) As for the demo itself, I dont think you will be making new fans by dropping them into control of a major power, engaged in a major war, without a tutorial. Being able to learn the basics with a small power would have been nice.
So to summarize, I hope this demo is indicative of a fairly early beta stage, not something close to what you are planning to release.
If the former is the case, then keep up the good work
Hmmm, I was in the same situation as Rome and Carthage was spamming me peace deals giving 5-6 provinces. Maybe they still had big armies in your game?
There is a notification on leader death. With a "go to" button even.
There is a notification on leader death. With a "go to" button even.
My impressions on the demo:
Quite engrossing. Kept me up to 2 am twice in a row. Learning curve is a bit steep, even for an EU veteran. The trade system is rather interesting. Not sure that I like it. Seems unrealistic that there are so few horses. Was there really not a single horse in Italy?
Finesse is a fuzzy concept. I found it a bit hard to figure out who was the best choice for the research positions and governor. Likewise, the elections. Why does it seem that people of poor skills and moderate popularity win election over popular war heroes?
I'm not sure about the government structures. I don't think it represents oligarchic states all that well. Shouldn't there be two consuls? And was there such a thing as "High General" of Carthage? I thought the power there resided in a civilian oligarchy.
The AI stubbornness I echo. As Carthage I had a hell of a time getting Rome agree to giving up what Carthage lost in the 1st Punic War. I suppose that's realistic. Once I captured Rome and smashed a couple of legions in Italy they saw the light.
Hannibal's stats seem a bit low. I always wind up with at least one, often two, better generals.
Quite engrossing. Kept me up to 2 am twice in a row. Learning curve is a bit steep, even for an EU veteran. The trade system is rather interesting. Not sure that I like it. Seems unrealistic that there are so few horses. Was there really not a single horse in Italy?
Finesse is a fuzzy concept. I found it a bit hard to figure out who was the best choice for the research positions and governor. Likewise, the elections. Why does it seem that people of poor skills and moderate popularity win election over popular war heroes?
I'm not sure about the government structures. I don't think it represents oligarchic states all that well. Shouldn't there be two consuls? And was there such a thing as "High General" of Carthage? I thought the power there resided in a civilian oligarchy.
The AI stubbornness I echo. As Carthage I had a hell of a time getting Rome agree to giving up what Carthage lost in the 1st Punic War. I suppose that's realistic. Once I captured Rome and smashed a couple of legions in Italy they saw the light.
Hannibal's stats seem a bit low. I always wind up with at least one, often two, better generals.
Rome demo is sweet. Big ups to Johan and the dev team. As a hardcore strat-gamer I have been waiting forever for a game that not only offers military difficulty but diplomacy (AI) that works as well. From what I've seen in demo, Rome should deliver on both fronts. EU3 was a solid military game but the diplomacy never really kicked in. I never played Napoleon's Ambition so can't compare. In Rome, playing as Rome, I managed to get trade/military access with Macedonia by bribing them with lots of gold until relations had gone from -150 to +150. I'm hoping this is a representation that diplomacy will actually function in full game. Graphics are a massive improvement over other paradox games also.
Couple of things I noticed in my game/s concerning previous posts:
1/ Disloyal generals: In all my games my generals inevitably became disloyal, refusing to give up command of their armies. After much frustration I found there are two ways to get rid of them. 1/ Wait for them to die, or 2/ In the army screen you can consolidate your legions after a battle. So if your general is disloyal, instead of letting his army reinforce you can dwindle his legions down by merging his units together. Depending on the size of his army this may take a long time but it works. I had one general, 0% loyal, with about 11 legions, most of which were loyal to him. After several big battles with barbarian hordes I had his army down from 11,000 to 2,000 men. Just meant I had to rebuild new armies to replace ones I lost. I am assuming in full game disloyal generals will be more of a problem.
2/ Lack of females: Over the course of the demo I had three consuls who were married off. From those unions three daughters and four sons were born, none of which made it to adulthood due to the length of the demo but I'm hoping this is a reflection that females/children will be more prevalent in the full game.
3/ Tribute system: Fantastic. With Masilia as an ally tributes made me supremely wealthy without having to actually declare war on anyone, thus saving my stability from being demolished. At one point my monthly income was about 15 allowing me to bribe Macedonia and get trade/military access.
All in all I reckon the demo shows a lot of promise, here's hoping the full game has even more surprises for us. Bring on the multi-player and the Parthians.
Couple of things I noticed in my game/s concerning previous posts:
1/ Disloyal generals: In all my games my generals inevitably became disloyal, refusing to give up command of their armies. After much frustration I found there are two ways to get rid of them. 1/ Wait for them to die, or 2/ In the army screen you can consolidate your legions after a battle. So if your general is disloyal, instead of letting his army reinforce you can dwindle his legions down by merging his units together. Depending on the size of his army this may take a long time but it works. I had one general, 0% loyal, with about 11 legions, most of which were loyal to him. After several big battles with barbarian hordes I had his army down from 11,000 to 2,000 men. Just meant I had to rebuild new armies to replace ones I lost. I am assuming in full game disloyal generals will be more of a problem.
2/ Lack of females: Over the course of the demo I had three consuls who were married off. From those unions three daughters and four sons were born, none of which made it to adulthood due to the length of the demo but I'm hoping this is a reflection that females/children will be more prevalent in the full game.
3/ Tribute system: Fantastic. With Masilia as an ally tributes made me supremely wealthy without having to actually declare war on anyone, thus saving my stability from being demolished. At one point my monthly income was about 15 allowing me to bribe Macedonia and get trade/military access.
All in all I reckon the demo shows a lot of promise, here's hoping the full game has even more surprises for us. Bring on the multi-player and the Parthians.
Played the demo. It was fun. Some things that bothered me:
- The pause indicator, it is somewhat in the way most of the time.
- The Euphrates and Tigris are horribly misplaced. They are running through the Zagros mountains! (technically I first noticed in the Parthian Beta AAR, but with the demo one can look closer and click on the provinces etc. ) They should be more to the west. Seleucia, that should be next to one of the rivers looks like it is in the middle of a desert far away from any water.
Other then that everything seemed more or less ok, with a few things, that either might be fixed already in the full game and are really rather minor in any way (such as the city in Numidia is Numidia, as far as I could see wouldn't Cirta, an actual city, be better, provided it is not the city of Theveste province or something in some other start date ), or things that probably aren't but I can easily fix personally for myself if it still bothers me in the full game, and that other people like the way it is (I personally think the Gallic minors are underpowered, they seem slightly too poor and too barbaric, but that is afterall just my personal opinion).
- The pause indicator, it is somewhat in the way most of the time.
- The Euphrates and Tigris are horribly misplaced. They are running through the Zagros mountains!
(technically I first noticed in the Parthian Beta AAR, but with the demo one can look closer and click on the provinces etc. ) They should be more to the west. Seleucia, that should be next to one of the rivers looks like it is in the middle of a desert far away from any water.Other then that everything seemed more or less ok, with a few things, that either might be fixed already in the full game and are really rather minor in any way (such as the city in Numidia is Numidia, as far as I could see wouldn't Cirta, an actual city, be better, provided it is not the city of Theveste province or something in some other start date
), or things that probably aren't but I can easily fix personally for myself if it still bothers me in the full game, and that other people like the way it is (I personally think the Gallic minors are underpowered, they seem slightly too poor and too barbaric, but that is afterall just my personal opinion).
4 points keep this from being an completly awsome game for me....
1)Despite supply being less of an item in the ancient world then in later periods, resupplying routing armies, wich seems to happen, is a bit too much.... No supplying of a routed enemy untill it gets a certain cohesion level, i would think.
2)No pingpong battles.....If an army loses badly in enemy territory, it should not be able to advance to an other enemy occupies territory that easily. Either enforce heavy attrition when routed, or enforce that they only can retreat to an owned province when below a certain treshold.( it is ridicilous that i chase an army from northern spain to Carthage, routing it every time, and it getting resupllied and routing/advancing towards carthage! )
3)I think cavalry should be having less inpact in battle, ( unless you have ideas that strenghten them, to allow parthian style armies ) , and battles should rely on heavy infantry ( although with support ! ) as the main decider....but once battles are won, the side with the most non routed cavalry should be able to deliver crushing blows, and be able to destroy an army
4)Provinces that are conquered should go over to the conquering side immediatly, unless they are citizens of the losing empire. treaties should not go over the possesion of a province, but over cores!
I really liked what i saw, but please listen to the crowd on this, for i have already seen that i am not the only one asking for solutions in this area!
1)Despite supply being less of an item in the ancient world then in later periods, resupplying routing armies, wich seems to happen, is a bit too much.... No supplying of a routed enemy untill it gets a certain cohesion level, i would think.
2)No pingpong battles.....If an army loses badly in enemy territory, it should not be able to advance to an other enemy occupies territory that easily. Either enforce heavy attrition when routed, or enforce that they only can retreat to an owned province when below a certain treshold.( it is ridicilous that i chase an army from northern spain to Carthage, routing it every time, and it getting resupllied and routing/advancing towards carthage! )
3)I think cavalry should be having less inpact in battle, ( unless you have ideas that strenghten them, to allow parthian style armies ) , and battles should rely on heavy infantry ( although with support ! ) as the main decider....but once battles are won, the side with the most non routed cavalry should be able to deliver crushing blows, and be able to destroy an army
4)Provinces that are conquered should go over to the conquering side immediatly, unless they are citizens of the losing empire. treaties should not go over the possesion of a province, but over cores!
I really liked what i saw, but please listen to the crowd on this, for i have already seen that i am not the only one asking for solutions in this area!
Secret Master said:
yes, but it should be changed. There are persons with lower charisma but better chances of success due to traits (silver tongue and sth else i can't remember).
Overall, I liked the demo a lot. However, there is one thing that bothered me to no end. One of the first things I like to do in any Paradox game is go into the message settings and simply set them all to popup&pause and then selectively whittle them down as they come up.
So suddenly I start getting a lot of events where a character in my realm decided something. Great! Except that there is no "go to" button to actually go to the character and see what effects it had on him or who he is in the first place. So that message, instead of being fun info for me to read about how my characters are developing, turns into frustration since almost all the time I have no idea who the message is referring to, since remembering a hundred or so fictional names isn't exactly something I plan on doing. Is it some minor functionary? Is it one of the governors of my top provinces? Is one of the generals? To pour salt on the wound, the engine can obviously handle such a go to - it handles it without issue when a character dies.
Please Paradox, add a "Go to" button to the another character in the realm experienced an event message.
So suddenly I start getting a lot of events where a character in my realm decided something. Great! Except that there is no "go to" button to actually go to the character and see what effects it had on him or who he is in the first place. So that message, instead of being fun info for me to read about how my characters are developing, turns into frustration since almost all the time I have no idea who the message is referring to, since remembering a hundred or so fictional names isn't exactly something I plan on doing. Is it some minor functionary? Is it one of the governors of my top provinces? Is one of the generals? To pour salt on the wound, the engine can obviously handle such a go to - it handles it without issue when a character dies.
Please Paradox, add a "Go to" button to the another character in the realm experienced an event message.
Yeah I think it's gonna take a few nice patches to make this game into perfection.
My concerns - possibly mentioned before (everything else can be considered okay)
1.) At the beginning of the scenario Rome has only a supply limit of about 16 units.
This is strange because actually you have the manpower and money to recruit way more. In the end I had 80 cohorts without problems.
So why is the support limit so low and why is there no difference if you completely ignore it?
2.) All or nearly all of the Roman characters are neither married nor do they have children at the beginning of a game.
I understand that it is impossible to research entire families for each character at a certain date. But then they should get randomly generated families. Otherwise there will be a gap of one generation when the old ones begin to die.
3.) Is it true that there are no colonization costs?
It seems to be a little bit too simple that you only have to click the button for free.
4.) It is also annoying that you just defeated the barbarians - but before you can click the colonization button another faction sends a colonist.
5.) I do not understand how the culture of new colonies is determined.
When I colonized Bononia the province got Etruscan culture although it had a different culture (Celtic) before. I expected that it would either get Roman culture or the old culture would remain at first.
6.) It is nice that we can read how good unit type A is in a fight against unit type B (in percent).
But I cannot see stats how strong the units actually are.
1.) At the beginning of the scenario Rome has only a supply limit of about 16 units.
This is strange because actually you have the manpower and money to recruit way more. In the end I had 80 cohorts without problems.
So why is the support limit so low and why is there no difference if you completely ignore it?
2.) All or nearly all of the Roman characters are neither married nor do they have children at the beginning of a game.
I understand that it is impossible to research entire families for each character at a certain date. But then they should get randomly generated families. Otherwise there will be a gap of one generation when the old ones begin to die.
3.) Is it true that there are no colonization costs?
It seems to be a little bit too simple that you only have to click the button for free.
4.) It is also annoying that you just defeated the barbarians - but before you can click the colonization button another faction sends a colonist.
5.) I do not understand how the culture of new colonies is determined.
When I colonized Bononia the province got Etruscan culture although it had a different culture (Celtic) before. I expected that it would either get Roman culture or the old culture would remain at first.
6.) It is nice that we can read how good unit type A is in a fight against unit type B (in percent).
But I cannot see stats how strong the units actually are.
Last edited: