TheArchMede

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I have absolutely never heard about that in 8 years of playing DW. Is it still existing in 5.2 though ?
It requires the Liberum Veto decision to be taken. Only a few countries get that opportunity and they normally only take it as a last resort when being overrun. The country has to survive, get back into good shape, stay that way for long enough to get the event that allows it to effectively undo the decision and then take the reform choice. Spend enough time beating up Eastern tech neighbours and letting them regroup afterwards, and you'll see it. You don't get text explaining whats happened, so its quite possible its happened in your games and you've never realised it. I had to go and track down the events in the files to see how it worked. I don't think I've ever seen it twice in a game before though. Its in 5.2.
This is what happened to a Russia that did it both as Muscovy and then Russia.
EU3_14.gif
 
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It requires the Liberum Veto decision to be taken. Only a few countries get that opportunity and they normally only take it as a last resort when being overrun. The country has to survive, get back into good shape, stay that way for long enough to get the event that allows it to effectively undo the decision and then take the reform choice. Spend enough time beating up Eastern tech neighbours and letting them regroup afterwards, and you'll see it. You don't get text explaining whats happened, so its quite possible its happened in your games and you've never realised it. I had to go and track down the events in the files to see how it worked. I don't think I've ever seen it twice in a game before though. Its in 5.2.
This is what happened to a Russia that did it both as Muscovy and then Russia.
View attachment 776419

This is really interesting. I've been doing as you say : looked up in many of my old game saves to find a trace of it, but I didn't. I never take the Liberum Veto decision when I play Eastern countries, and in other games when I'm at war with them, I often keep the pressure on them until they take LV, wipe away the 15k army that pops up in the last unoccupied province, then wait a few months more until their WE get through the roof again. Maybe this doesn't allow them to recover enough to get the other Liberum Veto events later on.

But I'll be looking for it now, and let my Eastern foes a chance to get it, for sure ;). I find it amazing that this good old game still has some perks that remain to be discovered.

BTW, that Portuguese World Conquest of yours is looking good.

Edit : been looking for actual historical references for Liberum Veto and what this peculiar law did to the policies of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the XVIIIth century... And as usual the game feature is incredibly relevant. EU3 and other Paradox games really have incited me to learn more historical stuff than I did in my student years !
 
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TheArchMede

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This is really interesting. I've been doing as you say : looked up in many of my old game saves to find a trace of it, but I didn't. I never take the Liberum Veto decision when I play Eastern countries, and in other games when I'm at war with them, I often keep the pressure on them until they take LV, wipe away the 15k army that pops up in the last unoccupied province, then wait a few months more until their WE get through the roof again. Maybe this doesn't allow them to recover enough to get the other Liberum Veto events later on.

But I'll be looking for it now, and let my Eastern foes a chance to get it, for sure ;). I find it amazing that this good old game still has some perks that remain to be discovered.

BTW, that Portuguese World Conquest of yours is looking good.

Edit : been looking for actual historical references for Liberum Veto and what this peculiar law did to the policies of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the XVIIIth century... And as usual the game feature is incredibly relevant. EU3 and other Paradox games really have incited me to learn more historical stuff than I did in my student years !
Norman Davies is a good writer on this. "God's Playground" is his detailed history of Poland, his "Vanished Kingdoms" includes essays on quite a few EU3 era states that aren't around any more, he was also on the "In Our Time" podcast recently when they did an episode on the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I'm not sure how accessible BBC podcasts are outside the UK, but well worth a listen if you can access it and I'd expect any EU player to like Vanished Kingdoms.
 
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Norman Davies is a good writer on this. "God's Playground" is his detailed history of Poland, his "Vanished Kingdoms" includes essays on quite a few EU3 era states that aren't around any more, he was also on the "In Our Time" podcast recently when they did an episode on the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I'm not sure how accessible BBC podcasts are outside the UK, but well worth a listen if you can access it and I'd expect any EU player to like Vanished Kingdoms.
Found it ! Might not be so easy to listen to (while I can read and write some correct English, hearing it live is another matter...) but certainly worth a try. AND I'm glad to say I have at least one book by Norman Davies about Polish History at hand - I'm a librarian and actually in charge of the History section ;)
 

Arcas Cronifer

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Wanted to make some silly plans with an OPM that was absolutely not settled for them :

MOD1458polbis.jpg


I chose Modena because, whereas their PU senior partner Ferrara can get into some trouble (The Papal State has a specific mission against them for instance), everybody around seems to ignore completely that pale yellow OPM. AI Milan doesn't even consider asking them for Military Access, which is a shame since this is how they consistently tend to fail at fighting rebels in Sienna and Pisa and so often end losing those 2 precious provinces. Of course I didn't bother proposing them either, so I could vassalize the new independent Pisa state later on.

I just had to refuse the alliance with Ferrara and let them die alone. Very soon they got seized by a pretender, which broke the PU and I was set free with a new and rather decent ruler, without having even asked for it. Then Ferrara DoWed me to restore the PU, they lost and became my loyal vassals. Oh, how the tables have turned.

Another reason for choosing Modena over Ferrara was that I intended to sail West - here the silly plans begin - and at least Modena is on the right side of the Italian Peninsula for that.

So, I took advantage of my University to get National Ideas faster, and being an OPM (and HRE member) allowed me to swap ideas whenever I needed it with stability hits not causing trouble for too long. I could choose QFTNW during the 1420's and colonized Madeira. I couldn't colonize very fast though, because even with Trade tech 7 I was not a very good trader, and in spite of Modena being a decent wine-producing province, I was constantly broke due to the expensive things I was doing overseas. Besides, something completely unexpected happened in the middle of the process : a PU with Castille. This allowed me to win that defensive war against Venice you can see on the picture above. The downside was that Castille involved me in European stuff more often that I'd need (Aragon was willing to reclaim that Valencia province Castille had taken earlier).

Actually my purpose was completely elsewhere :

MOD1458pol.jpg


I was finally not going West, but East. Modena decided not to trust the wild imagining of that Genoan navigator, Cristoforo Colombo : the road to India had to sail around Africa, period. I paved my way by conquering pagan countries instead of colonizing, it took a while but was also much less expensive. I finally conquered all of Mutapa and waited a bit until everything was cored and converted... then went for India with a foolhardy 20k army (who eventually won against Vijaynagar but was rather badly decimated, I have to admit. Galloglaigh Infantry is not enough against Indian troops apparently).

Fast forward some dull decades of conquest. During the 1530's my excellent, 85 year-old king Francesco died after a 70 year-long reign (!) and I inherited Castille. His heir was already 73 years old (some Prince Charles vibe here) but still lived long enough to be elected emperor. As you can imagine I couldn't care less about HRE stuff, but the news was welcome for the manpower boost (I still had issues with it back then).

I also had directly inherited Mantua earlier on, without even having a PU with them. Thank you, but that kind of ruins my plan of keeping my capital isolated until I'm ready to leave...

MOD1536hre.jpg


I wasn't really happy with that Castillan territory since it gave me Overexpansion (my Indian possessions were far from being cored). And I needed Castille alive as an ally in Europe, not only for their armies but for the big fleet they tend to build. So I released them as a vassal. In the 1550's, when Nova Modena (former Ahmadabad) and surrounding provinces (including Kutch and its juicy CoT) got cored, I also released Mantua, adopted a Republican government, rightfully lost the Imperial Crown, left the HRE... and moved to India.

MOD1563pol.jpg


It was said that I would still get some trouble from Castille though. Here I have just been DoWed by England for a stupid colonial dispute with Castille in North America... Don't you think I have some more important things to do, kids ? Like attacking former OPM Delhi who just made a spectacular comeback... and that unusually big Assam, too.

I was kinda exhausted by the game at this point, so I stopped there for a moment, but I guess many funny things could still happen. It was never as easy as it could seem though, because Modena is not Holland and the route I took with them was not obvious, really. But it was an original experience.

(Final sidenote : Switzerland went berserk in that game, probably got the "Claims on our rivals" event several times or something : whatever, they completely destroyed Austria, and for once I took zero part in it. Impressive.)

Edit : forgot to mention the incredible resistance of the Hordes in that game. Golden Horde falling to Muscovy and Prussia is quite recent here, in the early 16th century they still held Crimea, since Poland and Lithuania completeley failed to conquer them. The Timourids were struggling but after my first war against Vijaynagar they took advantage, took back some of their coastal provinces, vassalized the minors that had rebelled away from them, and even contained the expansion of Persia for a while. Other Hordes were mostly intact, and thus still in TI from the Westerner's point of view.
 
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TheArchMede

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20k Portuguese wasn't enough at that land tech either, at least not when Vijayanagara still had 120k to throw at them.
You could try to turn India Italian. I doubt settlement policies would be enough to do it all, but if there's still that pagan province in Assam, it should be possible.
 
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20k Portuguese wasn't enough at that land tech either, at least not when Vijayanagara still had 120k to throw at them.
You could try to turn India Italian. I doubt settlement policies would be enough to do it all, but if there's still that pagan province in Assam, it should be possible.
Well I think I've never used settlement policies (kinda deterred by the infamy, revolt risk and magistrate malus), and I'm not good at cultural conversion mechanisms in general. I just convert new provinces to my religion because it's better for the economy and social peace in the long run, but I'm used to living with massively multicultural empires. I even find it sad that through religious conversion, pagans completely loose their culture and their cores... How would that work with the pagan province in Assam BTW ?
Somehow in that case it would be more legit that rather than turning India to Italian, I turn Indian :) like any other conqueror of the subcontinent in History...
 
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TheArchMede

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Well I think I've never used settlement policies (kinda deterred by the infamy, revolt risk and magistrate malus), and I'm not good at cultural conversion mechanisms in general. I just convert new provinces to my religion because it's better for the economy and social peace in the long run, but I'm used to living with massively multicultural empires. I even find it sad that through religious conversion, pagans completely loose their culture and their cores... How would that work with the pagan province in Assam BTW ?
Somehow in that case it would be more legit that rather than turning India to Italian, I turn Indian :) like any other conqueror of the subcontinent in History...
Pagan fanatic rebels will force convert provinces they take to paganism which can then be reconverted to change culture. Put a missionary in a pagan province, give zero funding to avoid it converting, and you should have the revolt risk to get pagan fanatics. If you aren't going to conquer the world, why would the infamy malus worry you? Its a severe drain on colonists, but if you don't aspire to a colonial empire what else are they good for?
Culture shift to an Indian culture should be trivial. Turning Italy Indian would be a challenge as would shifting to an Indian religion!
Depends whose history you read ... South and North Indian cultures have different ideas on this and its quite hard to reconstruct Indian history due to episodes of destruction of inconvenient evidence by the victors. This is not unique to India, the English appropriate Stonehenge, I'm sure you can think of invented continuities in French history too ;).