Post-WW2 - Germany defeated?

[Leckan]

I'm curious how the game will look after eventually Germany is defeated.

In HoI3 there were difficulties with this. For example the Soviet would often almost instantly declare war on the Allies after Germany had been defeated, and war goals could mess things up (would've been fun having a Germany-split as a war goal available after a certain date for the Soviets/Allies under some conditions etc).

Is there the possibility of having a Cold War to any extent after WW2 ends in HoI4? I really wanted the game East vs. West and I'd love to see something of the sort supported in this game. Playing as the Soviets I'd really like to have the option to continue the fight against the "capitalist anti-workers", secure Europe, and to support communism all around the world. Etc etc.. I'm guessing a lot of this can be moddable? (I got the impression that HoI4 is more mod-friendly than HoI3, hope that is correct), but right now I'm curious what is in the game itself.

 

[1337Hospitaller]

The game doesn't end when Germany dies. You can keep going after that and do whatever you want.

 

[Leckan]

The game doesn't end when Germany dies. You can keep going after that and do whatever you want.

Has there been any info on how the game will evolve when germany loses? How Germany is split? What are the "natural" relations between the Allies and Comintern? Etc

 

[Ostheim]

Maybe the first expansion will be Cold War

 

[Coohler]

You should probably take a look at the developer diary on peace conferences and check out the World War Wednesday videos.
If I'm not mistaken all of the post-war national boundaries, puppets, etc are decided by the winners of the war in the peace conferences that are triggered when the enemy surrenders. So far there are no possibilites to create custom puppets though, so Germany would probably fall into either the hands of the Allies or the Soviets, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this one

 

[Damiani]

The game doesn't end when Germany dies. You can keep going after that and do whatever you want.

I assume with HOI4 that WT will gradually decline, so therefore the Democracies and Communists would be limited again as they were in the beginning of the game and thus things will return to normal (although tensions will still remain). The problem with HOI3 is that after the war neutrality with everyone who fought would still be at 0% and everyone would just go apeshit on each other, which was interesting in its own right, but not particularly realistic.

 

[1337Hospitaller]

I assume with HOI4 that WT will gradually decline, so therefore the Democracies and Communists would be limited again as they were in the beginning of the game and thus things will return to normal (although tensions will still remain). The problem with HOI3 is that after the war neutrality with everyone who fought would still be at 0% and everyone would just go apeshit on each other, which was interesting in its own right, but not particularly realistic.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the war would have continued if the USSR had the capability to do so after the fascist nations fell. The end goal of communism is a global state(or perhaps the lack thereof). It's been demonstrated that realism is at the bottom of the list of priorities in this game's development anyways.

 

[Damiani]

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the war would have continued if the USSR had the capability to do so after the fascist nations fell. The end goal of communism is a global state(or perhaps the lack thereof). It's been demonstrated that realism is at the bottom of the list of priorities in this game's development anyways.

I doubt that Stalin was curious in continuing the war after the millions of deaths. I think he was much more focused on securing Eastern Europe and setting up the puppet states. Plus, the Soviets didn't have the bomb yet so war with the Allies meant at least a few Nukes being dropped on Russia.

 

[zyphial]

Maybe the first expansion will be Cold War

One can dream, but HOI4 is a, what, 9 year game? 1936 to approx 1945/46? The Cold War is only mostly over, but even if we say 1991/92 that's still more than 40 years to cover. No, I don't think HOI will expand that much, nor do I really think the devs would want to do that.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the war would have continued if the USSR had the capability to do so after the fascist nations fell.

Only at extreme cost. Was it possible to fight on? Yes, but far wiser to recuperate and come back stronger, as they did.

The end goal of communism is a global state(or perhaps the lack thereof).

Oversimplification. "Communism" is many things. Stalinism had far less focus on internationalism ("Socialism in One State") than it did in many others. Stalin had a difficult possition almost the entire time. Even after winning WW2, the instability in his own nation made too much attention outside unfeasible. Really, the USSR had no interest in the plight of, say, Polish workers. Russia, regardless of its government or even time period, has always been far more concerned with the defense of its borders, namely the "vulnerable," extremely significant and densely populated western half of the country that has always historically been exposed to The West. Something they'd just had a horrifying reminder of. Russia has wanted a buffer since, what, the partition of the PLC, maybe earlier? Communism was a convenient excuse to justify meeting that very real geopolitical need. Why do you think the Ukraine's influence is so contested nowadays? Same need. Extending that beyond a comfortable arms length would have been biting off too much to swallow. The soviets would have choked on a massive, unhappy population that was not open to the ideas of Communism or soviet hegemony. Heck, they'd already had enough of that with their new buffer territories.

 

[Zaku]

Has there been any info on how the game will evolve when germany loses? How Germany is split? What are the "natural" relations between the Allies and Comintern? Etc

If the enemy faction still has a major they will become the leader, if there are only minors the war is over. When the last major gets defeated there is a peace conference between the nations.

It's all in this DD.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...evelopment-diary-30th-of-october-2015.889096/

After the Axis are defeated the game doesn't end, you can defeat the remaining factions as well.

 

[Number 7]

put a spoiler warning on that title, some of us weren't up to the part where germany lost yet.

(i kid i kid)

the game is going to continue, but there will be a peace treaty where the parties involved get to partition up germany, so half of it very well could go to teh soviets and the otehr half to the allies

 

[aruon]

don't quote me, but i did hear a while ago that at the very least, west germany and east germany can spring into existence.

either way, the post-war won't matter much on day 1, and it's a sure bet that it will matter sometime down the road in a DLC.

 

[LordOfWar16]

Has there been any info on how the game will evolve when germany loses? How Germany is split? What are the "natural" relations between the Allies and Comintern? Etc

The soviets and western allies arent allies, but are seperate factions. Peacedeals let you enforce certain stuff like taking specific states that you want or puppeting them for example. Peacedeals trigger after the enemy surrenders.

Maybe the first expansion will be Cold War

podcat already said there wont be an cold war expansion, but taht he could think of an korea war era expansion. He said an cold war expansion would require a revamp of the diplomacy mechanic and other gameplay mechanics that would go into victoria territory and well beyond the scope of an expansion.

the game is going to continue, but there will be a peace treaty where the parties involved get to partition up germany, so half of it very well could go to teh soviets and the otehr half to the allies

again, the soviets and the western allies arent allies. They only have a common enemy. If the soviets defeat the germans they decide what they and their allies want and if the western allies defeat them they enforce their demands.

The Soviet-German and British-German war are seperate wars.

 

[Daddl]

The Soviet-German and British-German war are seperate wars.

Polish-German War more likely (which is suboptimal at best, naming a 6 year long war after the first nation that is attacked and maybe lasts 3 weeks or so)

The problem with these seperate wars is how do you determine who won more/better? Imagine Germany got some nukes and therefore low NU, and surrenders after the Soviets take Königsberg and the Allies take Cologne. The one who took the "last" city can now determine everything except the territory the other alliance is holding? The one who clicks faster gets more territory? That would be a bit dumb.

I see this somehow working if Germany only surrenders if all of it is occupied anyway. If the Allies own Italy and everything west of Berlin while the Soviets have everything east of it, I assume you can only deal with the territorry your own alliance holds. That works out.

But if there are still unoccupied swaths of axis lands when the majors surrendered, we really need joint peace conferences for seperate wars. I don't see how this is satisfying otherwise.

 

[Denkt]

HOI4 only focus on a WW2 conflict and not on the aftermat.

 

[LordOfWar16]

Polish-German War more likely (which is suboptimal at best, naming a 6 year long war after the first nation that is attacked and maybe lasts 3 weeks or so)

The problem with these seperate wars is how do you determine who won more/better? Imagine Germany got some nukes and therefore low NU, and surrenders after the Soviets take Königsberg and the Allies take Cologne. The one who took the "last" city can now determine everything except the territory the other alliance is holding? The one who clicks faster gets more territory? That would be a bit dumb.

I see this somehow working if Germany only surrenders if all of it is occupied anyway. If the Allies own Italy and everything west of Berlin while the Soviets have everything east of it, I assume you can only deal with the territorry your own alliance holds. That works out.

But if there are still unoccupied swaths of axis lands when the majors surrendered, we really need joint peace conferences for seperate wars. I don't see how this is satisfying otherwise.

if it is anything like EUIV you cant demand territory which is occupied by another country outside your war. So if the SU occupies eastern germany and the allies occupy western germany they cant take each others territory in the peacedeal.

They said something about having some mechanics in place for factions with the same enemy tho, but never really specified what that would be.

 

[GermanPower]

I assume after a series of DLC to introduce all the features they want into the game Cold War will be opened up. I'd love to see a to 64 or a to 56 or something expansion for it.

 

[1337Hospitaller]

I doubt that Stalin was curious in continuing the war after the millions of deaths. I think he was much more focused on securing Eastern Europe and setting up the puppet states. Plus, the Soviets didn't have the bomb yet so war with the Allies meant at least a few Nukes being dropped on Russia.

You're right. That's what I meant when I said "if he had the capability". Like a scenario where there weren't millions of USSR deaths which is entirely possible in HoI IV.

 

[Leckan]

HOI4 only focus on a WW2 conflict and not on the aftermat.

Indeed, and I'm just left here wondering, what happens if I want to continue the war against the Soviets if I'm playing as the British? Etc. The game mechanics in HoI3 made this a bit hard and unsatisfying to be honest.

 

[Daddl]

In todays WWW they said we have joint peace conferences for seperate wars, so there is that. The one with the most contribution will be able to grab most, but for example in a war against Germany, I guess (or hope) it will be quite hard for any participant to get more than say ~70% of the contribution score, so you can just grab two thirds, not everything. Imagine Russians stomping their way to Germany while the Allies didn't get much done really, but they still will have quite a bit of contribution as they are so many different countries who maybe did not fight that great, but did fight nevertheless.