I must admit I did not get it either. An example would be niceZuckergußgebäck said:
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Equally straightforward, and essential in slugging matches, is probably the doubling of the units high-ranking leaders can command without penalty so long as they are within one province range of a HQ... This allows you to have a HQ unit one province behind the front line - where terrain allows in a province that will allow it to support multiple high ranking leader stacks in different provinces on the front line - allowing your Generals or Field Marshals to viciously overstack divisions without suffering penalties compared to those not supported by HQ's.Grosshaus said:
Combat events are good - allowing a high concentration of forces is better
herm said:
I'm not fully sure, but I'd presume the HQ would not in that scenario affect the attacking force. Provided the attacked province isn't also bordering the province where the HQ is located.
GrimReaper:
The support defence means you set a province as a target for your unit, that province is supported in case it's attacked. The supporting unit can move there much faster than normally. The beauty of this mission lies in MP, you can create gaps that seem like lucrative to attack with a 20 div panzer army lurking in the province beneath. Sheer nastiness.
Support attack means that the unit will attack the target province provided it's "really" attacked by another unit. The supporting unit will not move to the target province after breakthrough. This way you can lend the firepower of neighbouring provinces without making yourself vulnerable to counterattacks as the newly gained province would have most of your forces in the front otherwise. Less risky that way to attack from multiple directions and getting the bonus from it.
"Support Attack" lends the stack's divisions to an attack, but without vacating the province once the attack is finished. It's useful, therefore, for maintaining a connected front.GrimReaper said:I must admit I did not get it either. An example would be nice
"Support Defense," on the other hand, DOES move the stack's divisions into the attacked province, at 3x the normal movement rate (which simulates those units being "on alert", I suppose). When you issue the command to a stack to support defense, you will then be asked which province you wish to support if it is attacked. Therefore, you wouldn't want to issue this order to a stack or division that alone held a province on the front line, because to have it move out of the province in defense of someone else would leave you with a hole in your lines.
P.S. - I belive it is sufficient that the HQ be adjacent to the unit when the unit STARTS its attack. It doesn't have to be adjacent to the target province. (Grosshaus, you see, hasn't actually PLAYED the game! :rofl: )
Unable to Run Demo
Glad you all can play your demo....
Mine can't even run as when I launch, my screen goes blank and attempted to change resolution followed by an error message "Failed:Could not initialize video" then the "The application has encountered an error" message. :wacko:
Any ideas on what caused this? Devs?
Hopefully this problem does not appear on the full version...
Glad you all can play your demo....
Mine can't even run as when I launch, my screen goes blank and attempted to change resolution followed by an error message "Failed:Could not initialize video" then the "The application has encountered an error" message. :wacko:
Any ideas on what caused this? Devs?
Hopefully this problem does not appear on the full version...
well my comment on this game is very straightforward = it's fantastic ! I guess the reasons for not buying this game are close to zero.
With the Germans I tryed to attack Liege and I got myself bogged into a huge battle that lasted days and even weeks ... casualties where not so heavy - but nothing happened and I saw the allies repositioning and even counterattacking. So I began to get hate letters from Hitler.
Eventually I tried to destabilse the allies by creating a few "smoke screens", I attacked Aken, attacked Eindhoven. I retreated those units then and reengaged one week later.
Then I decided it was time to take the pressure from my first attack on Liege and go for Aken and Eindhoven and yes - I broke trough and so I was close to Antwerp.
In the meantime I had drawn all my reserves into Liege and pounded them with the fiercest attack. The AI was already busy to defend Antwerp and they lost Liege and then I began steamrolling...
in the end the Allies broke trough in Wurtemberg but where halted there.
Eventually I took all of Belgium back, besides Gent and was invading France...and I got victory,
splendid strategic game
With the Germans I tryed to attack Liege and I got myself bogged into a huge battle that lasted days and even weeks ... casualties where not so heavy - but nothing happened and I saw the allies repositioning and even counterattacking. So I began to get hate letters from Hitler.
Eventually I tried to destabilse the allies by creating a few "smoke screens", I attacked Aken, attacked Eindhoven. I retreated those units then and reengaged one week later.
Then I decided it was time to take the pressure from my first attack on Liege and go for Aken and Eindhoven and yes - I broke trough and so I was close to Antwerp.
In the meantime I had drawn all my reserves into Liege and pounded them with the fiercest attack. The AI was already busy to defend Antwerp and they lost Liege and then I began steamrolling...
in the end the Allies broke trough in Wurtemberg but where halted there.
Eventually I took all of Belgium back, besides Gent and was invading France...and I got victory,
splendid strategic game
Disgustoid said:
Why does everyone find this such a big problem just make sure you attack with large enough corps... If you have smaller units then just support attack and attack only with a big corps.
Only thing I found weird about the game is I have won the game with the germans every time I have played. Maybe they are a bit overpowered somehow?
I was on the gates of Paris when my game ended. To bad it diden't last one more month...
Fiendix said:I am working on a faq..
yup - but there are more modifiers
no they dont - hqs do that now
nope the hq can double the limit. Now we can have max 48 units defending a provice with no stack penatly. (hehe I played all night
F
So what you are saying is that if i order attacks with 2 armies from 2 separate provinces , they attack at the same time but if they win they dont arrive in the attacked province in the same time?
Is that correct?
It was so much going on while i played so it was confusing the first time...and i didnt play all night
It is enough that your attack force is neighbouring the HQ. That is why having HQs one province behind the front lines at all times is quite sufficent even on the offensive.herm said:
Rommel22 said:
Where did I say I wanted HOI1 system back? Improve the mov/attack so its more realistic.
Rommel22 said:
Yes its an improvement - did I not say that? Yet it doesnt make sense if you can be everywhere at the same time and attack every direction with the same force at the same time....
Rommel22 said:
yes and by the time HQ unit issues that order to the 1 unit on the line its too late to change the order on the whole front within 1 hr (abstract) THUS we should have a delay after issuing orders. Why cant u understand that?
Rommel22 said:
what does that have to do with move/attack...? and BTW you do see them as a huge exclamation mark on the battle view.
Rommel22 said:
Would you want to play HOI as it was in ver 1.00? I am sure you would not. If you dont understand the concept of commiting troops to the front and then changing orders during that period then its you who need to read more books...
F
So I guess support defence is basicaly..ambush?And support attack is basicaly what it says on the tin.
I don't think the question re: HQs has been fully answered.
That is.. if my HQ is behind my frontline province, it would support that province in terms of stack size... should that province be attacked. I get that.
But, if I attack with my front line, over-stacked province.. into a province NOT next to another friendly HQ.. will I suffer some effects from moving AWAY from my HQ?
Do I need to move my HQ up during the attack? Before the attack?
(My guess would be BEFORE the attack.. but if my HQ is moving.. do I lose its effects?)
In other news.. I played the demo twice.. once as allies, once as axis.. never having played HOI before (but playing all other Paradox games).. I got the historical minor victory as the allies and I got a major victory as the axis.
This leads to a question.. is the demo in some kind of EASY difficulty mode? I mean.. I didn't really know what I was doing and by the second game I kicked ass.
For those wanting a mini-aar for my German strategic Victory.. here goes:
I used the WEATHER mode on the map to see where it was snowing and I attacked there. I first moved backline forces up toward Cologne.
My first real attacks were in the Netherlands into eindoven. When I played as allies the AI axis first attacked - successfully- into Aachen). I attacked with Rotterdam, Utrecht and Arnhem into Eindoven and I moved Amsterm divisions up into Rotterdam. Actually, I might have moved them up BEFORE the attack and I attacked from Rotterdam with botht he Rotterdam and Amsterdam divisions. I say this because the Allies took Rotterdam behind this attack for a short while.. but I just sent one of the successful Eindoven groups back at Rotterdam to re-take it.
I don't know that German air-power helped much.. I sent my only tactical bombers (in Amsterdam) off to crater Ghents runway, a night, I feared ally air power... don't recall is they were successful. Kept the other fighter home for awhile.
Moved Dortmund, Kassel and Franfurt divisions into Saarbrucken and most of Essen into Cologne.
Then, HITLER demanded that I take Antwerp... since that was my plan I was rather happy.
Now I coordinated attacks on many provinces. Cologne to Bastogne and Luxemborg supported by Saarbrucken (to Luxembourg). Saarbrucken also supported Stutgart's attack into Strassbourg.
Once these attacks were underway I set my figthers to air superioriorty over Westfalen. It was still snowing but I worried about allied air support for the defenders. (I am still unclear about selecting provinces for air missions.. it did seem like my fighters were willing to go into neighboring provinces.. but I am unsure of this).
I had prioritized my divisions involced in my Eindoven attack. By the time I won battles in Bastogne and Luxembourg (and lost in Strassbourg) I was ready to attack Antwerp. So I sent in everything I had from Eindoven. I think I caught the Allies moving troops to support the other lines because Antwerp fell rather nicely.
Hitler did not recognize this right away. But he did issue new commands, to drive to Rotterdam (which I had not yet retaken) and to re-take Dunkirk, which I had lost (BTW-as allies taking Dunkirk, I had to station adivision there as it showed PARTISAN activity at 3%.. later, as Axis, I saw PARTISAN activites at 13%-16% in some of these provinces... and setting an HQ uinto to partisan mop-up did not work.. that is, my unit was forced to retreat from Strassbourg at some point. I then found a two-division infantry unit to Strassbourg.
Now the weather began to clear and out came the allied air power. ouchy. I really couldn't keep track of how much they hurt me.. but my air power drained quickly.. even losing whole fighter divisions.
Hitler then recognized my victory in Antwerp and I was notified that other possible events were avoided (like Hitler is pissed off or something called "Rheinschild" or similar). I really liked these event chains and had seen nothing like this as the Allies.. perhaps because I was so re-active and slow and didn't accomplish much... ended with 80+ victory points as the Allies.. but needed 100 for a strategic victory.
But it seemed to me that sticking with the offensive was the way to go as I noticed I "captured" a lot of supplies as I won provinces. So, my next goal was to hurt the allied air-power by capturing air base provinces and I wanted to surround and cut-off Aachen.
In order, I then attacked Arlon (airbase), Liege (to cut-off Aachen), Aachen which fell quickly and Metz.. which wa trouble as it was supported from Rheims.
So, I then attacked Mulhouse and Dijon to trouble Rheims and that allowed me to take Metz. By then my Antwerp forces were well recovered so I took Namur (airbase).
I think the game ended on Feb 3rd.. which was strange.. because, as the Allies, it ended on March 3rd. With the German strategic victory it told me that the Allies would have to regather their strength for another offensive in 1946.
In short, the battles seemed quite interesting and when you couple this with research and production sea power and diplomacy so on.. I am quite happy that I pre-ordered.
NOW.. give us more battles to satiate us! Please?
That is.. if my HQ is behind my frontline province, it would support that province in terms of stack size... should that province be attacked. I get that.
But, if I attack with my front line, over-stacked province.. into a province NOT next to another friendly HQ.. will I suffer some effects from moving AWAY from my HQ?
Do I need to move my HQ up during the attack? Before the attack?
(My guess would be BEFORE the attack.. but if my HQ is moving.. do I lose its effects?)
In other news.. I played the demo twice.. once as allies, once as axis.. never having played HOI before (but playing all other Paradox games).. I got the historical minor victory as the allies and I got a major victory as the axis.
This leads to a question.. is the demo in some kind of EASY difficulty mode? I mean.. I didn't really know what I was doing and by the second game I kicked ass.
For those wanting a mini-aar for my German strategic Victory.. here goes:
I used the WEATHER mode on the map to see where it was snowing and I attacked there. I first moved backline forces up toward Cologne.
My first real attacks were in the Netherlands into eindoven. When I played as allies the AI axis first attacked - successfully- into Aachen). I attacked with Rotterdam, Utrecht and Arnhem into Eindoven and I moved Amsterm divisions up into Rotterdam. Actually, I might have moved them up BEFORE the attack and I attacked from Rotterdam with botht he Rotterdam and Amsterdam divisions. I say this because the Allies took Rotterdam behind this attack for a short while.. but I just sent one of the successful Eindoven groups back at Rotterdam to re-take it.
I don't know that German air-power helped much.. I sent my only tactical bombers (in Amsterdam) off to crater Ghents runway, a night, I feared ally air power... don't recall is they were successful. Kept the other fighter home for awhile.
Moved Dortmund, Kassel and Franfurt divisions into Saarbrucken and most of Essen into Cologne.
Then, HITLER demanded that I take Antwerp... since that was my plan I was rather happy.
Now I coordinated attacks on many provinces. Cologne to Bastogne and Luxemborg supported by Saarbrucken (to Luxembourg). Saarbrucken also supported Stutgart's attack into Strassbourg.
Once these attacks were underway I set my figthers to air superioriorty over Westfalen. It was still snowing but I worried about allied air support for the defenders. (I am still unclear about selecting provinces for air missions.. it did seem like my fighters were willing to go into neighboring provinces.. but I am unsure of this).
I had prioritized my divisions involced in my Eindoven attack. By the time I won battles in Bastogne and Luxembourg (and lost in Strassbourg) I was ready to attack Antwerp. So I sent in everything I had from Eindoven. I think I caught the Allies moving troops to support the other lines because Antwerp fell rather nicely.
Hitler did not recognize this right away. But he did issue new commands, to drive to Rotterdam (which I had not yet retaken) and to re-take Dunkirk, which I had lost (BTW-as allies taking Dunkirk, I had to station adivision there as it showed PARTISAN activity at 3%.. later, as Axis, I saw PARTISAN activites at 13%-16% in some of these provinces... and setting an HQ uinto to partisan mop-up did not work.. that is, my unit was forced to retreat from Strassbourg at some point. I then found a two-division infantry unit to Strassbourg.
Now the weather began to clear and out came the allied air power. ouchy. I really couldn't keep track of how much they hurt me.. but my air power drained quickly.. even losing whole fighter divisions.
Hitler then recognized my victory in Antwerp and I was notified that other possible events were avoided (like Hitler is pissed off or something called "Rheinschild" or similar). I really liked these event chains and had seen nothing like this as the Allies.. perhaps because I was so re-active and slow and didn't accomplish much... ended with 80+ victory points as the Allies.. but needed 100 for a strategic victory.
But it seemed to me that sticking with the offensive was the way to go as I noticed I "captured" a lot of supplies as I won provinces. So, my next goal was to hurt the allied air-power by capturing air base provinces and I wanted to surround and cut-off Aachen.
In order, I then attacked Arlon (airbase), Liege (to cut-off Aachen), Aachen which fell quickly and Metz.. which wa trouble as it was supported from Rheims.
So, I then attacked Mulhouse and Dijon to trouble Rheims and that allowed me to take Metz. By then my Antwerp forces were well recovered so I took Namur (airbase).
I think the game ended on Feb 3rd.. which was strange.. because, as the Allies, it ended on March 3rd. With the German strategic victory it told me that the Allies would have to regather their strength for another offensive in 1946.
In short, the battles seemed quite interesting and when you couple this with research and production sea power and diplomacy so on.. I am quite happy that I pre-ordered.
NOW.. give us more battles to satiate us! Please?
eye-switcher said:So what you are saying is that if i order attacks with 2 armies from 2 separate provinces , they attack at the same time but if they win they dont arrive in the attacked province in the same time?
Is that correct?
It was so much going on while i played so it was confusing the first time...and i didnt play all night
exactly.. and its not 2 armies - its each stack arrives at a different time.. thus its NO POINT to use anything less than a FM on the front line as those small units will get pounded by the enemy units that were to help the defenders.. crazy.
F
I didn't read the whole thread - the second page had a lot of criticism in it.
I found the demo very enjoyable. It's some of the best fun I've had in weeks. Maybe I liked it so much because I didn't ruin my own experience by expecting it to be perfect...?
All in all, a very solid demo and very entertaining. This has sparked my interst in HoI2.
I found the demo very enjoyable. It's some of the best fun I've had in weeks. Maybe I liked it so much because I didn't ruin my own experience by expecting it to be perfect...?
All in all, a very solid demo and very entertaining. This has sparked my interst in HoI2.
And about this CHANGING ORDERS thing... would you be happy if, once orders are issued there is a time where you can cancel those orders, butthen the unit is locked for a period of time while it awaits new orders?
EnPeaSea said:
yes
EnPeaSea said:
it seems so
EnPeaSea said:
no 24 with 1 FM / 48 with 2 FM (as far as I can tell).. its pretty hard to get all the yanks in one territory and get attacked by the germans.. the ai goes dumb you know
F
azid said:
I find it a problem because it forces me to adapt my playing style ... I love historic corps ... that is I love stacks of 2-4 divisions ... I used to lassoo several stacks and have them attack ... with the HOI1-style arrival-date that was no problem ... but now EVERYTIME I have an attack from multiple provinces or involving units/stacks with different speeds a multiple pronged attack will result in some of those corps becoming completely demolished ...
it's like after my corps have broken enemy resistance someone shouts "last one at the center of the province has to buy all the drinks !" and they all dash in there without minding their safety .... sometimes I really want that effect (armoured breakthrough) but more often than not I don't (because counter-attacks can come out of the blue) ...
Now, the only workaround is to use corps/stacks the size of entire armies (using only one leader) ... and even then the problem with multipronged attacks (NOT supporting actions: attacks !) remains ...
Now I can most probably adapt to this, but I don't find it makes much sense ... if I can only attack with big stacks then my junior officers won't see any action ... I might just as well promote Ringel and Dietl and Lammersdorff to Field Marshals
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Disgustoid said:
I think this needs to be addressed as well... I kept trying to drag select my blocks of korps and sending them all off to no avail. Perhaps if something was updated to keep them together... Or at least stop the advance and wait for the other units to catch up (unless told otherwise to break through).
Fiendix, you need to read up on warfare. Understand, this is a game, lot of things are abstract. It's fine as is.
And as others said, if you attack with 3 stacks, one being small and yo uknow it might get repulsed, use it for support attack only. Like 'someone' said, think outsid of HOI1.
This is different, more realistic, imo. IMO, EVERY unit, even in the stack should arrive at a different time. But then you would never stop whining.
I had no problems playing, I never once had one of my units decimated like you say because they arrived ahead. That's because I was smart enough to have it support the attack. My main attack force was a panzer armee of 9 divisions. Other supported it.
I see no problems in the system, only people who don't know how to use it to it's full potential.
In the end, it's a game, and it will never be 100% realistic, that's impossible. But so far, it's damn good. Everyone will have their gripes, because they'd want it their own way. But that won't happen, paradox can't please all.
And as others said, if you attack with 3 stacks, one being small and yo uknow it might get repulsed, use it for support attack only. Like 'someone' said, think outsid of HOI1.
This is different, more realistic, imo. IMO, EVERY unit, even in the stack should arrive at a different time. But then you would never stop whining.
I had no problems playing, I never once had one of my units decimated like you say because they arrived ahead. That's because I was smart enough to have it support the attack. My main attack force was a panzer armee of 9 divisions. Other supported it.
I see no problems in the system, only people who don't know how to use it to it's full potential.
In the end, it's a game, and it will never be 100% realistic, that's impossible. But so far, it's damn good. Everyone will have their gripes, because they'd want it their own way. But that won't happen, paradox can't please all.