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Galle

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So, a crazy idea for how to start the scenario: Rather than a really destructive apocalyptic event (nuclear war, for example) make it a "global infrastructure collapse" one. Maybe we ran out of fossil fuels or something. The point is that the event should concentrate more on destroying centralized control, so that we can feasibly go from nation-states-with-professional-armies to a feudal system.

Once this is dealt with, we can actually have the scenario start with the United States in its modern borders. Up to 50 states (although more likely 48/49) at Kingdom level (not necessarily the same as the creatable kingdoms), united under a single Empire, all of them republics ruled by Governors and a President, respectively. Then give the federal government Realm Duress (or its equivalent) and a tiny demesne (D.C.)

In other words, we could theoretically let the player actually play out the collapse of the US, and let the game and AI generate the successor states rather than creating them ourselves. We could also extend this to Canada and Mexico by having them start as separate Empires.
 

ZhugeKongming

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PNW coast should be all one title, I think. Gotta remember: population density! The further north you go, the less people, the larger provinces/duchies/kingdoms should be.
That's exactly why it shouldn't be one title. The coast is the most habitable and most densely populated part of the region. This would definitely still be true in the event of a nuclear holocaust. (In fact, the region might get warmer and become even more habitable.) Southern California, on the other hand, would be a desert without the aid of modern technology. That warm sunny weather that people love so much would be a curse to an agrarian society.

You could argue that the PNW Coast would actually be the center of population for the West Coast in the event of a nuclear war and societal collapse.
 
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Orinsul

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But inbetween it and the golden circle are the great plains which would be nomadic and would sunder the two civilisations apart. Like how CK doesnt include the Soudan or china. PNW could be where the late-game invasion comes froms maybe
And if its a nuclear holocaust then most places would be inhospitable deserts no? isnt that kind of the point, nukes kill everything and forever

So, a crazy idea for how to start the scenario: Rather than a really destructive apocalyptic event (nuclear war, for example) make it a "global infrastructure collapse" one. Maybe we ran out of fossil fuels or something. The point is that the event should concentrate more on destroying centralized control, so that we can feasibly go from nation-states-with-professional-armies to a feudal system.

Once this is dealt with, we can actually have the scenario start with the United States in its modern borders. Up to 50 states (although more likely 48/49) at Kingdom level (not necessarily the same as the creatable kingdoms), united under a single Empire, all of them republics ruled by Governors and a President, respectively. Then give the federal government Realm Duress (or its equivalent) and a tiny demesne (D.C.)

In other words, we could theoretically let the player actually play out the collapse of the US, and let the game and AI generate the successor states rather than creating them ourselves. We could also extend this to Canada and Mexico by having them start as separate Empires.
CKs not really built for that, as a mod for Victoria 2 that could work. But not for CK2. It models the High Middle Ages and so is prepared to model that and things like it, which is civilisation and stability and legitimacy and especially a stable and continual upper class. Not Chaos and Collapse, but V2 does chaos and collapse very very well, because it has POPs and complicated rebel and food supply mechanics
 
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ZhugeKongming

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There would be increased desertification, sure, but to have endless deserts in every direction as so many post-apocalyptic scenarios do is completely unrealistic. There would still be many different types of biomes, just as there are today. Remember, we are talking about centuries or even millennia after the nuclear holocaust.

Some places are much more ecologically vulnerable than others. Southern California is one of these. It's a region which could never support the kind of population it has now if it were an agrarian society. There's a reason Los Angeles County has to get all of its water from out of state.
 

RedRooster81

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There would be increased desertification, sure, but to have endless deserts in every direction as so many post-apocalyptic scenarios do is completely unrealistic. There would still be many different types of biomes, just as there are today. Remember, we are talking about centuries or even millennia after the nuclear holocaust.

Some places are much more ecologically vulnerable than others. Southern California is one of these. It's a region which could never support the kind of population it has now if it were an agrarian society. There's a reason Los Angeles County has to get all of its water from out of state.

Good point. A lot of places would be abandoned or nearly so. Reminds me of Edward Abbey's Good news about Phoenix, NM, after a similar disaster. IIRC, his first chapter begins with something like, "Phoenix, where a city should never have been." Some places are just not sustainable, even under present conditions, without a rather massive infrastructure and long-distance ties. I imagine that society would collapse to a more local level, somewhere above subsistence.
 

Duzaroo

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And if its a nuclear holocaust then most places would be inhospitable deserts no? isnt that kind of the point, nukes kill everything and forever

It really depends on how much time we are talking about. If it is a big enough nuclear war to destroy infrastructure and reduce all civilization to post Medieval times so that by the time you get to where this mod starts it is an excepted way of life and there aren't rebellions every other day against the aristocracy , and nobody on earth has a gun...Then most of the environment will revert back to what it should be. With some minor altercations here and there (ponds where once there was an atomic crater).
 

Galle

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CKs not really built for that, as a mod for Victoria 2 that could work. But not for CK2. It models the High Middle Ages and so is prepared to model that and things like it, which is civilisation and stability and legitimacy and especially a stable and continual upper class. Not Chaos and Collapse, but V2 does chaos and collapse very very well, because it has POPs and complicated rebel and food supply mechanics

Go play CK1 and then tell me that game models "stability." I figure we might as well harness the inevitable collapse of large empires in CK for our own ends.
 
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I was actually pondering a "Let's rebuild the US with my 'tribe'. The government would evolve as you advance.


One problem, how do 'colonize' the land around you? I doubt the engine has a mechanic for it, Unless you rework Pagans to be 'uncivilized tribes' and conquer them.

In english: Let the world revolve around me aka dumbing down the game/casualizing. I'm pretty sure many people play Paradox games because they're hard, not because they'rey easy/dumbed down. If I wanted to play an easy/dumbed down game I wouldn't be here.
 

Galle

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In english: Let the world revolve around me aka dumbing down the game/casualizing. I'm pretty sure many people play Paradox games because they're hard, not because they'rey easy/dumbed down. If I wanted to play an easy/dumbed down game I wouldn't be here.

In English: Nobody is allowed to like things I don't like.
 

Veldmaarschalk

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In english: Let the world revolve around me aka dumbing down the game/casualizing. I'm pretty sure many people play Paradox games because they're hard, not because they'rey easy/dumbed down. If I wanted to play an easy/dumbed down game I wouldn't be here.

I have no idea, what your post has to do with the post you quoted. If you have nothing meaningfull to add to this mod-idea, then just don't say anything at all.
 

Comrade Chaos

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In english: Let the world revolve around me aka dumbing down the game/casualizing. I'm pretty sure many people play Paradox games because they're hard, not because they'rey easy/dumbed down. If I wanted to play an easy/dumbed down game I wouldn't be here.

Neato.


I'll let Sam take care of this.

841efbf7120b.gif
 

RedRooster81

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Back to Comrade Chaos's earlier post, I would say that ideally there would be tribal/nomadic realms in CK2. Alternatively, I think that you could make certain groups "pagans" with one barony per county that you could then expand to up to six per county, so you would sort of being colonizing that way. Just a thought on topic. I'm not sure what the map might look like but if it is the whole of North America and the Caribbean region say, or just eastern or western USA, you could expand out that way, with everyone starting as OPMs.

Another interesting feature would be sea level rise, which I don't think has been mentioned yet, for a warmer world that is a suitably "weird" sandbox for us to play in. Not quite Fallout, not quite Waterworld ;)
 
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unmerged(94157)

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It really depends where you're at. I remember at AH.com they came up with some sort of Hanseatic League in the Great Lakes and the St. Laurence river, which happen to be dotted with fairly large cities.

I actually helped with that a little bit. It didn't have a proximate reason as to why the old regime collapsed or why so much knowledge was lost, but just went on with the fact that it did. I like S. M. Stirling's approach to creating a medieval America better- the laws of nature changed in such a way that all modern technology (internal combustion engine, some steam engines, gunpowder, electronics, etc.) no longer worked. ASB's did it.

The way that the story (Dies the Fire) worked out was pretty stupid, but it is a fairly good basis. Without cars, electricity, and refrigeration, you see a massive die off of population, with the biggest cities gone. Rural/agricultural states maintain the largest population, the Great Plains see nomadic herders, and the old order is replaced by strictly feudal society.
 

Orinsul

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Another interesting feature would be sea level rise, which I don't think has been mentioned yet, for a warmer world that is a suitably "weird" sandbox for us to play in. Not quite Fallout, not quite Waterworld ;)

itd be really hard to do a map of that. usually when you see sea level rise settings they have all the wrongs bits under water. rifts had the mountainy bits of spain but none of lowlands. Best if anything involving a huge amount of maths and research for the map alone is needed.
I still like that Golden Circle map with allowances for the rivers and coasts
 

Orinsul

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the more i think about this, the more i think it should be a Sengoku Mod.
youre rebuilding a country, so the victory by becoming single ruler is there. its much more about war and chaos and conflict then CK is and its about a country which has fallen into warring pieces.
the titles could all be military ones, the clans or whatever i cant get my head round the jap words to make heads or tails of the sengoku tiers, could each be a different shard of a shattered US army each lead by its own claimant to the presidency and you win when you control enough land to be one and only president.
Set it maybe sixty or eighty years after an event only vaguely hinted at that was serious enough to necessitate placing the country under emergency military control and annexing alot of land into military hands to provide and sustain the army doing its vital live or die work. and long enough that by the time it was over a generation had past so the people in power had never known any other way of living. And then have the game start with the president [of a military junta] and his direct line of succession being killed off or discredited and plunging the place into civil war with the army leadership breaking up into dozens of pieces each making attempting to place their own man in washington and then the game start would be after the dust has settled on the first chaotic many-couped conflict with the map broken up between a dozen or generals all claiming to be the one legitimate US army and ready to spend a generation or two battling each other for the crown.
CK would need a mod set during a time of stable civilisation, maybe not stable politics but where the ruling class is unchallenged and things more or less stay the same, whereas the whole point of sengoku is its set during a time of chaos, which is what a post-apocolyptic mod would have to be. and it comes out first anyway and its more about war too.

Not that there couldnt be a CK one too. but itd be better along the lines of a Canticle for Lebowitz setting, for a grounded in now one i think Sengoku would be alot better.


EDIT; i just scribbed up a backstory, its rubbish but it makes the point of how itd suit a military character game like sengoku better than a kingdom character game like CK2, also i saw that it already had the name right there so i had to. the names were taken randomly from the Victoria VIP random leader names. If scenarios can start with characters already hostage and treaties built around that then that would be a brilliant way to start with the most powerful army being made up of mostly alliances held together by holding their leaders hostage from the capture of washington. Ninjas could be the CIA or something.

These Warring States
A Post-Apocalyptic Sengoku Mod
Introduction.
In the chaos that followed the remnants of the government under emergency powers place the nation under matrial law. Military personal were put on in full force, carrying out the evacuations and the emergence civil defense. The land and property of the dead and missing was appropriated into military hands to feed and provide for the army.
The was forty years ago. Back when people still believed the world would recover, very few now remember what it was like before. The death of President Lockwood was taken with suspicion, blame fell on his successor President Rose who was shot within days of taking office and President Arran soon after. By the appointment of President St-Clair the nation was on the brink of chaos and then General McRae seized control in a sudden coup but failed to consolidate power. With all legitimacy lost from washington and no clear line of succession central command collapsed, throughout the nation dozens of presidents declared themselves and went to war against the others. the initial conflicts ended without any victor or even any gains, the generations of war that followed where the broken militaries of the once united states battled over the presidency eventual became known to historians as the Warring States Period.
 
Last edited:

3inar

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haha this wold be fun to play after playing original CK2 till you bleed, I wold play it! (Id sugest that you keep it to modern times tho and leave the scifi rayguns out).
 

RedRooster81

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@Orinsul: I think that you might be right about Sengoku being a better engine for such a mod. No CBs (you keep what you take) is an advantage among many. King has just given us some insight into map and character modding in CK2 here. I would think that modding Sengoku will present much the same challenge to anyone attempting an overhaul mod.

Btw, I would avoid use of the word "jap," which is widely seen as derogatory, even though I am sure you meant nothing by it. Here in the states at least it's a pretty loaded term.