Possible to win a war as Russia?

[Extreme Unction]

Muscowy, get 6 cores + 9 cores from mission, so its equal. Also it got almost all cores needed for russia unification and can easily get core on smolensk thru mission. It is highly unlikely thou, that novgorod will get core on musocwy, meaning that even if you conquer muscowy in 2 wars - meaning 10 years - and get all provinces needed for russian unification, it will take 50 years for those provinces to core - leading to quite big rebelions as those provinces are most, quite high on manpower, also, at best you will unify russia around 1460-70. And i think for novgorod, russia formation will be more likely to be in 1500, as lithuania tends to be pretty powerfull early on, and it is possible that it will be inherited - which means OP poland, that will got like 60k forces... or more. Even on its own, lithuania got like 30-40k, and if it manages to conquer some lands, it even sometimes goes to 50-60k. Also lithuania is both more wealthy than moscow and novgorod, but moscow missions increase wealth of muscovite provinces, meaning muscowy will got higher taxes, allowing to bring bigger forces, aspecialy as its sliders are better for army.

I started off by making friends immediately with Poland, Lithuania, and Sweden, which seemed to make the most sense since they were my biggest, baddest neighbors. Gave them all military access through Novgorod, spent a lot of my early income sending them gifts, and eventually formed an alliance with both Poland and Sweden. That solved the problem of them being tougher than me.

Muscovy, as mentioned, fell pretty easily. They'd been getting the snot beat out of them by both Poland/Lithuania and the Golden Horde for over a decade by the time I got a mission to vassalize them, so they were pushovers, even with Rurikovich generals running around. Vassalized them in 1415 or so, diploannexed them 10 years later, had core on all of 'em by 1475.

If someone as muscowy fare not as well as novgorod - well... i don't realt know how it would be possible. I mean i understand if weak player with muscowy don't fare as well as good player with novgorod, but same player should fare much better as muscowy than novgorod... unless he is very unlucky with the game on muscowy - get more nasty events etc.

It's just a different playstyle. I think a lot of players want to jump in and start immediately waging war on their neighbors. If you do that with Novgorod, you'll get pwned. With Novgorod, you really need to start off slowly and cautiously. Since I am by nature a slow, cautious, methodical player, it's worked out great for me.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Fast conquest > slow conquest, with russia, as you get cores from form russia decision, that if you are moscow, give you very good eco + place to 0 infamy conquest. Add to this, that you get cores on GH lands, meaning when you go and conquer them, you get quite good income from them. Ofc. regardless of that, you are muscowy or novgorod fighting GH is quite hard, but if you manage to use atrition, and also got quite big army, and manage to take GH when it is weakest, you can colonize siberia to kamchatka before 1500 quite easily. Whatever the worst problem with russia is allways beating golden horde. Aspecialy due to that poland AI is idiot and do not peace with GH asap - as it should - meaning that it is very propable that they will eat hungary and OE, making it a nightmare to take them down. Best situation is if they do not take moldavia, and just force Georgia to pay them tribute - as it will mean they will only got their starting territories, and will get possibly massive revolts, making them easier target.

Still i think Moscow is better for russia from reasons i already mentioned. Ofc. it need you to make things in rush, and inflate yourself to economical hell sometimes, but you can eat it, and become a superpower quite fast.

 

[Extreme Unction]

Fast conquest > slow conquest

I'm currently the world leader in tech, income, and army size in my game, and 2nd overall in provinces owned. So I'm not sure it really makes a difference in the long run. I mean, here's the tech map from my game:

I'm the undisputed tech leader in 1782, and have been for at least 120 years. I've been the undisputed income leader for 200+ years. I was westernized by 1504, and had military modernization by 1540. (Coulda modernized the military sooner, but made a couple slider moves without thinking that didn't get me closer to the reqs for military modernization.) And I conquered the GH before I modernized my military.

Ofc. regardless of that, you are muscowy or novgorod fighting GH is quite hard, but if you manage to use atrition, and also got quite big army, and manage to take GH when it is weakest, you can colonize siberia to kamchatka before 1500 quite easily. Whatever the worst problem with russia is allways beating golden horde. Aspecialy due to that poland AI is idiot and do not peace with GH asap - as it should - meaning that it is very propable that they will eat hungary and OE, making it a nightmare to take them down. Best situation is if they do not take moldavia, and just force Georgia to pay them tribute - as it will mean they will only got their starting territories, and will get possibly massive revolts, making them easier target.

I didn't start taking on the GH until I had Offensive Eastern Musketeers, and it's a cakewalk with that big of a tech gap. And I was pretty happy that they were at war with Poland and Lithuania at the time, because they weren't focusing exclusively on me.

I found the whole process rather tedious, really. Slowly colonizing the Horde territories bit by bit instead of just annexing them outright, for a couple dozen horde provinces, was a pain.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Tech lead is not everything, also, having tech lead in SP is quite easy. Anyway in what year did you managed to colonize golden horde/siberia? And one thing, why do you NOT, own kola? I also wonder, why you don't own poland by the 1782, but whatever.

 

[Extreme Unction]

Anyway in what year did you managed to colonize golden horde/siberia?

Mm. Lessee. GH was done by 1550 or so, took another 90 years to fully colonize out to the Pacific.

And one thing, why do you NOT, own kola?

Starts off as an uncolonized province, and having one colony (Karelia) in the early game was tough enough. Sweden got there first, and I've never felt particularly compelled to acquire it.

I also wonder, why you don't own poland by the 1782, but whatever.

I've been pretty happy to leave them alone and let them do their thing in Europe. They've returned the favor.

Besides, I didn't want to accidentally blow up your house or anything.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Huh, being income leader is pretty easy, even on 1450 as russia. Aspecialy when you conquer all your cores, and start expanding into horde lands.

Also GH alive by 1550 and fully colonized siberia by 1640 is not realy quick.

Also, not colonizing Kola, shows your weakness. Still, try to do my muscowy strategy (i can't cause i don't have my computer available). And see what will be better. Also, what is your force limit?

About colonizing horde lands, you don't need to have better tech than GH, as AI is stiupid, and can be defeated by quite silly tricks. For example you can :
Kill them by atrition
Defeat their smaller stacks, and defeat their army one by one.
Use a nasty trick - make 1 unit on your border and move it to the province when they have their army there. Then prolongue that order(simply pause, and then order it to stop, then order it to move). Their army won't move, so you will be able to just siege their provinces, and kill their armies by making them bankrupt, as they will not have cash to pay for it, and they will have 0 morale. Then just proceed as usual - kill anything that moves, and storm their fortresses.

And possibly there are other tactics i don't know about...

 

[Extreme Unction]

Huh, being income leader is pretty easy, even on 1450 as russia. Aspecialy when you conquer all your cores, and start expanding into horde lands.

Also GH alive by 1550 and fully colonized siberia by 1640 is not realy quick.

Yeah, but who cares? I'm still #1.

Also, not colonizing Kola, shows your weakness.

It shows my lack of interest in colonizing Kola.