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Zaskow

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Greetings.
As you, experienced players, know spell of AD Twisting Roots has somewhat incorrect description, because it works on heroes/leaders with floating/flying.
Why it happens? Technically speaking it's oversight from devs. Every spell in game uses some type of filter. The most basic - requisite (unit is archer/undead/infantry/hero/whatever). But this is impossible through modding tools to give a requisite for unit constantly. That's why there is property filter in game too. However, it's missing for spells like Twisting Roots (and a few others). This is biggest problem here, because when unit is getting floating/flying ability with medal or item, it gets a property, not a requisite.
What we can do?
1. We can just fix description (already done AFAIK). There are only 3 types of units affected by this issue: heroes/leaders (items) and apprentices (with gold medal).
2. Remade spell. Well, it's a bit tricky here. After investigations and testings it seems that leaving TR unchanged is almost impossible. But it will be possible to exclude every single unit without inherent flying/floating. Possible variants:
a) TR becomes similar to autospell in game (spell which chooses targets randomly each round). I can set maximum amount of targets (56) and spell will target every unit on battlefield using property/requisite filter. In short this variant was rejected by Hiliadan, because camera in game shakes like crazy while casting . And it ignored some units for no reasons. However, I still have some small hopes to fix and make this variant viable.
b) TR will be somewhat similar to Cardinal Culling. You cast TR, it affects entire battlefield and every unit except forbidden. Main problem: such spell isn't disjunctable. Old TR can be disjuncted and you can move your units normally. But in this case you must dispel debuff from your EVERY single unit. Imagine, how OP this spell will become if I set duration of effect to the end of combat.

Hiliadan asked me to create this topic with explanation. Decide.
 
Last edited:

Marcus Pers

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Hello,

Obviously a) is the best, if you could prevent the camera from going to each unit (I assume this is the "shaking" mentioned).

If we go for b) I think we must set some alternatives duration and people can give their feedback.

My vote would be for 3 turns, similar to other movement restricting spells (slayers doubt, feral mounts, stiffen limbs)
 

Rodmar18

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If you had to go for 2b and reduce the duration to 3 rounds, then you would have to reduce its casting cost so that a player could cast it more often in a single battle, imho. On one hand, affecting some few floating units is bad, but remember that this spell is great to break a A.I. wave in two (fliers vs land units), and that it's a big asset in the AD panoply to make the archers real killers (when the spell is cast once they are in position behind cover/guards or on the walls).
 

Hiliadan

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For me a) has too many problems. Beside the camera problem - and if it is not fixed, it is seriously not acceptable to choose that solution -, we have no guarantee that it will target all the units because it is a random targetting.

Having a limited duration of 3 turns for b) seems like a good solution. And indeed, we could make it cheaper. So it could be for instance:
- 10 CP and 2 turns
- or 15 CP and 3 turns

That way you can cast it once or twice per combat.
 

HousePet

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I'd go for option 1 here.
This is a problem of an incorrect description not working for niche cases. If you go with option 2, you now have to make sure the balance is right. AKA Can of Worms.
 

devolution

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I agree with a 3 turn limit. TR is too easy to exploit and enables players to clear out high level sites a bit too early, in particular when combined with massed archers.
This would also partly solve issues with the AI which sometimes cast it despite having almost no ranged units while the opponent (i.e. me) has mostly ranged units.