i think it would be cool, but the nukes would have to be taken into account as well as tech i think a modern day mod may work better as we seem on the verge of ww3 as is
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Possibility of a Cold War mod?
- Thread starter Sgt.Exodus
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I would love to see recent diplomatic moves made into national focuses. "Russia selects 'demand Crimea' +5 world tension!"
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I'll remember to contact you in the future if you are serious about starting a new mod :
HOI 4 has still substantially better diplomatic options and mechanics than HOI 3 and they will surely later on add an espionage mechanic.
The thin line thing would be perfectly simulated by world tension so you have to keep it up to gain influence but not tip it over to result in nuclear annihilation.
And still a massive build up in forces of both sides would be kind of fun to simulate.
Additionally i think there were some scenarios where either the west or the east planned a direct war with the opponent without using nuclear weapons.
(Or maybe I just watched to much James Bond
)A simulation of this massive war which would follow would be perfect on HOI 4 no matter if historically plausible or not.
First thing that would have to be added would be a "war weariness" (WW) stat that gets tracked for each country, such that majors can be forced to site for peace before complete conquest.
This should be frankly in the game already, but is a major problem to try and do a cold war without it.
The current system of volunteers and lend lease allow for all the proxy war stuff to happen just fine.
Then you just need to balance the world tension/WW/DoW metrics to simulate all the hot spots around the world from the hot wars in Asia and middle East to the constant power struggle through black ops in Africa and South America.
Finally using the political power system you could expand and create a great espionage mechanic allowing for one to spend PP to drift another nation towards one ideology or another until a civil war or coup breaks out.
This should be frankly in the game already, but is a major problem to try and do a cold war without it.
The current system of volunteers and lend lease allow for all the proxy war stuff to happen just fine.
Then you just need to balance the world tension/WW/DoW metrics to simulate all the hot spots around the world from the hot wars in Asia and middle East to the constant power struggle through black ops in Africa and South America.
Finally using the political power system you could expand and create a great espionage mechanic allowing for one to spend PP to drift another nation towards one ideology or another until a civil war or coup breaks out.
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I think you can use X current war causalities as a trigger for an event that will force white peace if you desire that. (Your 1st point)
IMO, HoI4 lacks too much of economic and political/diplomatic aspects, to be a viable basis for a Cold War mod.
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I think EU4 or CK2 just got an espionage update, I feel that they have the same idea for HoI4. Another unnamed PDS game used espionage cards or events for pivotal moments but I haven't seen in in use. Feel overall HoI4 will be great as a cold war simulator, but at the same time we might get scenarios rather than a full grand campaign (1948-1991?). I could just see a setting with the cold war as daunting to most, but who knows. Maybe as DLC they will unlock sections of it like 1948-1962 and then 1962-1975 and so on. I'd personally like to see a Cold War DLC, if possible, but really it would so I can just turn it into a hot war. But the whole idea of using proxy nations to take the grand stage of conflict is also appeasing.
Mechanically speaking the National Focus tree and Technology trees are what would inhibit going further than 1948, I would imagine it could be done but more work is needed. It appears there is a scroll feature and especially the technology aspect looks like more things could be added. I'd image the same for the national focus as well. Would be cool if it could be changed to support national focuses from 1936-1991 in a grander campaign. But if you think of the "World Tension" as well, this could be used in a post-WW2 situation very easily. For example, Peace Treaties that effectively bring WW2 to end result in world tension being lowered and once all major nations make peace it slowly resets to zero.
Sorry if this sounds like a discombobulated mess, my brain hurts and it's cold here. But I think there is at least one good idea in here.
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I think it would have to be slightly more complex than pure casualties, but they would certainly factor into the equation.
Something too would be the need for a return of the 'descent' variable, rather than forcing a peace treaty. This way governments could continue to pursue an unpopular war, buy with efficiency penalties and a cost to their likely hood of being reelected/a coup breaking out.
That would take care of the sever limitations on the majors DoWing each other in an implausible manner but still let majors fight their proxy wars as actually happened.
Coups make modeling totalitarian systems easier, but changes in government being impactful to the player is tricky to manage. This is where the cold war mod would have the greatest difficulty.
Maybe you could have national focus trees locked based on the political party/faction in power? This way if you get ousted then your progress functionally stops until you can get back into power. Also victory conditions need to be updated. Less about holding X provinces, more of the soft VP, Y is in your faction, Z is not a member of P faction.
Then you get a VP screen at 48 and one in 70/80. Beyond that it's MAD or running out the clock so who cares?
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It sounds like a fantastic idea..
As for people complaining about the cold war being stagnant and no war.. well, you could potentially start mini conflicts in the third world like for example IRL the Korean War, Vietnam War, South African Border War etc..
As for people complaining about the cold war being stagnant and no war.. well, you could potentially start mini conflicts in the third world like for example IRL the Korean War, Vietnam War, South African Border War etc..
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I would be among the first to try out a cold war mod but i am very sceptic how feasible it is.
The mechanics in HoI4 are geared up for war, not only that but wars also seem to end only in an unconditional surrender. Most of the confrontations in the cold war were proxy wars as all of you know and the super powers tried to achieve as much as they could with their involvement without unhinging the balance so of the Mutual assured Destruction. So HoI is geared to end up in a total war in the worst possible sense while the cold war was all about avoiding a total war.
As i see it, the cold war was a struggle of two different ideologies trying to prove their superiority to their opponents and the rest of the world. Conventional Armies were only one way of trying to achieve that and they were not that good at that as they were hindered by the nuclear stalemate. There was also the ideological struggle about who is the "good guy", the intellectual competition symbolized in the space race, a general effort to supply their populace with the highest possible living standards, so basicly anything to outdo their opponent. Diplomacy and Espionage were only means to get a leg up on the enemy by securing certain alignments or hindering the enemy.
The main problem is, that the cold war was an economic struggle because all of the above needed to be produced and maintained somehow. The way the cold war ended was basicly that the SU couldn't keep up with the US anymore. Figuratively speaking they were 2 neighbours buying a new car alternately always trying show off the other until one of them got bankrupt in the process. This is not surprising, Lenin himself said that the struggle between the 2 systems will be decided by their productivity, so in the later stages the people who were not blinded by ideology could clearly see were this all was going.
For me a cold war mod/game should concentrate on this struggle of superiority over the other and all the inherent routes to do that. That would not be a game that focuses on warfare as much as HoI as war is only one aspect of many. Arguably HoI4 seems to be a lot more flexible for that than Hoi3 ever was and i like to be surprised, but its a big challenge to do well.
Regards
The mechanics in HoI4 are geared up for war, not only that but wars also seem to end only in an unconditional surrender. Most of the confrontations in the cold war were proxy wars as all of you know and the super powers tried to achieve as much as they could with their involvement without unhinging the balance so of the Mutual assured Destruction. So HoI is geared to end up in a total war in the worst possible sense while the cold war was all about avoiding a total war.
As i see it, the cold war was a struggle of two different ideologies trying to prove their superiority to their opponents and the rest of the world. Conventional Armies were only one way of trying to achieve that and they were not that good at that as they were hindered by the nuclear stalemate. There was also the ideological struggle about who is the "good guy", the intellectual competition symbolized in the space race, a general effort to supply their populace with the highest possible living standards, so basicly anything to outdo their opponent. Diplomacy and Espionage were only means to get a leg up on the enemy by securing certain alignments or hindering the enemy.
The main problem is, that the cold war was an economic struggle because all of the above needed to be produced and maintained somehow. The way the cold war ended was basicly that the SU couldn't keep up with the US anymore. Figuratively speaking they were 2 neighbours buying a new car alternately always trying show off the other until one of them got bankrupt in the process. This is not surprising, Lenin himself said that the struggle between the 2 systems will be decided by their productivity, so in the later stages the people who were not blinded by ideology could clearly see were this all was going.
For me a cold war mod/game should concentrate on this struggle of superiority over the other and all the inherent routes to do that. That would not be a game that focuses on warfare as much as HoI as war is only one aspect of many. Arguably HoI4 seems to be a lot more flexible for that than Hoi3 ever was and i like to be surprised, but its a big challenge to do well.
Regards
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A MOD. Mods are made by players not Paradox. Your post doesn't make sense.
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This ^
Also, everyone knows that HOI3-4 isn't equipped for a fully fledged Cold War mod, but hey who doesn't want a massive war between NATO and the Communists?
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How bout this idea to make it work?
And they thought the war was over
Time frame: 1946-1970
Nuclear Weapons can only be used by any nation deemed 'Superpower' against another such 'Superpower'. These are the nations with the top five economies at the time. You could build up a lot of them, but then drop to number six, and could not use them. Modern missiles are not included, but late-game long-range nuke rockets are.
Propaganda mechanic: Nations may spend money each month to try to start 'Communist uprisings' or such. Democracies would be less vulnerable to this. The more money put in, the higher chance of an uprising. (This does have a cap though)
Espionage mechanic: Spying and such can allow you to lower your neutrality/have a claim to go to war, affect the uprising chance, affect governments, affect economies, and affect diplomacy.
Space Race Events: These affect economy, unrest and such. They also may increase morale chance. Also, a war may be started if two nations demand 'moon territory', which gives them a reason to go to war.
Arms race: A whole lot of new technology which will alter the course of the war if used, and allow construction of 'super troops' which will be the best of their class.
And they thought the war was over
Time frame: 1946-1970
Nuclear Weapons can only be used by any nation deemed 'Superpower' against another such 'Superpower'. These are the nations with the top five economies at the time. You could build up a lot of them, but then drop to number six, and could not use them. Modern missiles are not included, but late-game long-range nuke rockets are.
Propaganda mechanic: Nations may spend money each month to try to start 'Communist uprisings' or such. Democracies would be less vulnerable to this. The more money put in, the higher chance of an uprising. (This does have a cap though)
Espionage mechanic: Spying and such can allow you to lower your neutrality/have a claim to go to war, affect the uprising chance, affect governments, affect economies, and affect diplomacy.
Space Race Events: These affect economy, unrest and such. They also may increase morale chance. Also, a war may be started if two nations demand 'moon territory', which gives them a reason to go to war.
Arms race: A whole lot of new technology which will alter the course of the war if used, and allow construction of 'super troops' which will be the best of their class.
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I've mentioned before that HOI 4 while not ideal, is still a vastly better platform for a cold war mod than HOI 3 was. What would really determine it would be how moddable the economy is, ie if modders can add more factory/resource types. The civil war mechanic is at least promising compared to many others.
What I really want out of a cold war mod/game is to develop a newly independent country economically, get it on my preferred political track, and then intervene on behalf of my ideology. As well as some mild conquest, such as playing Indonesia and conquering the Malaysian portion of Borneo.
What I really want out of a cold war mod/game is to develop a newly independent country economically, get it on my preferred political track, and then intervene on behalf of my ideology. As well as some mild conquest, such as playing Indonesia and conquering the Malaysian portion of Borneo.
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When I was making the Cold War mod for HOI3 this was the biggest problem.
But by the looks of the recent Word War Wednesday livestreams, it seems like these are possible. Probably because Paradox wanted the game to be more 'accessible' 'fun' and 'possible ahistorical' which is amazing in my opinion, I mean the Cold War was crazy times, coups abroad, civil wars between Communism and Capitalism.
But by the looks of the recent Word War Wednesday livestreams, it seems like these are possible. Probably because Paradox wanted the game to be more 'accessible' 'fun' and 'possible ahistorical' which is amazing in my opinion, I mean the Cold War was crazy times, coups abroad, civil wars between Communism and Capitalism.
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You know... if you could make the world tension restriction that applies to democracies apply to both NATO and the Warsaw Pact and make it so either declaring war on the other requires huge amounts of world tension first, it could actually work. Making the AI more cautious on top of that would be ideal.
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