Portuguese financial crisis

[TheRipper69-PT]

It is based on how much development there is in your provinces without the institution. Waiting for natural spread can reduce the price a lot (minimum 1 ducat).

But when you have like 800 development overseas (Africa and India) and you have like 200 dev at home it costs a lot... I got Global trade in Lisbon but still after 30 years had to spend 2K gold to get the institution... Austria, somehow, got it faster than me, Spain and anyone else...

Also, to get the Renaissance soon, one, have to spend points like crazy in southern parts of Portugal, Algarve should get more development, after all it's the birth of Portuguese exploration and Lisbon ffs...

And Beira (Tomar) should have the order of christ... It was way too important for Portugal to be disregarded...

 

[AledlePieux]

Also, to get the Renaissance soon, one, have to spend points like crazy in southern parts of Portugal, Algarve should get more development, after all it's the birth of Portuguese exploration and Lisbon ffs...

Increasing the development from Algarve will not reduce the total monarch point costs of spreading the Renaissance there.
According to the wiki, this cost is rather constant (around 2000 monarch point), but for some institutions, it might increase the spreading rate so improve the timeline to get it.

 

[Tisifoni12]

I don't have a save from that 'period' so can't show you details. The only adviser I had was a diplomatic adviser who cost <2 gold and think died or was dismissed during the colonisation period.

Will go back to a pre-colony save and try again with some cost saving measures. My intention was to look east and start building a string of colonies around Africa and on India and Indonesia before I started colonising Brazil. But as soon as I colonised I was haemorrhaging money and that first colony builds so slowly.

 

[El_Cid_]

You could always just invade Mali for their gold provinces

 

[Sfan]

A screenshot would always help. I just started a Portuguese game to see if my mind is wrong but no. It's 1455 and I'm making +5.5 ducats with 2 level 2 advisors and 1 level 1 advisor. No colonies yet but I don't see any potential problem any time soon. I may start with 2 colonies for 1 colonist from the very beginning.
No matter which date this is, a screenshot would help to see your income and your expenses.

 

[InvictusLampada]

It might be a good idea to make sure youre making as much as you can from the seville node, early game theres not a huge amount in it but you should be able to take the larger share, especially with tangiers under your belt.

 

[TheRipper69-PT]

Increasing the development from Algarve will not reduce the total monarch point costs of spreading the Renaissance there.
According to the wiki, this cost is rather constant (around 2000 monarch point), but for some institutions, it might increase the spreading rate so improve the timeline to get it.

I know... But in order to spread it faster (20 dev european province)...

Once Renaissance hits, my advice playing Portugal is at least give Lisbon and Porto to 20 dev.

That way you get the modifier to spread faster, in 1.18, Algarve was also a pretty solid choice to give 20 development, that way, Portugal could hit Renaissance faster, in 1.19, Algarve's development was dilluted due to the new province, personally, I think this is wrong, it makes Portugal get Renaissance way slower than Castille... Algarve, Beira, Coimbra, Porto and Lisboa are the most important regions of Portugal and they should get more dev/love than the other Iberian general provinces.

Coimbra: First portuguese university, made in 1290! Also land where D. Dinis ordered to plant several thousands of trees to make ships in the future and to prevent the sea from turning Portugal into desert...
Algarve: Land of discovery, where Portugal planted sugar, some tropical fruits and where started the whole thing of discovery age... And the estuary of Guadiana River is in the border between Algarve and Sevilla, not Sevilla, ffs!
Beira: Land of the order of Christ, after pope banish the templars, all of them were exiled to the city of Tomar, they were one of most richest institutions in Europe and provided highly disciplined troops and skilled explorers (even monarchs) to Portugal.
Porto: Heck, everyone knows Porto, one of the best wines in the world and a 100k city in 1500... Also has a beautiful river
Lisbon: The capital, this estuary made the greatest ships of the shining days of Portugal... 200K ppl in 1500... Even in the Personal Union under Philip II, the capital of the Spanish Empire was changed to Lisbon... in 1582!

 

[Tisifoni12]

First portuguese university, made in 1290!

Yes, I've posted elsewhere that we should be able to build universities and cathedrals earlier than currently allowed, but that the benefits should change with time.

Thank you for the advice. It has gone better. Tearing down the fortress in Tangiers and cutting fleet maintenance, intermittently, was sufficient. Intermittently as I also wanted to do some exploration, to the East Indies, the Caribbean and the coast of Brazil.

 

[MisterCooper]

Cmon just post a screenshot of your finances man.

 

[yuri2045]

I don't see how it's possible to "hemorrhage" money as Portugal by colonising early game. Each colony costs 2 ducats of maintenance per month, also don't expect that just colonising a few Atlantic ocean islands will immediately bank your finances. You'll only really start making money once you take over the Indian Ocean centers of trade and bring in the trade money to Sevilla.

 

[yerm]

I don't think anyone can pinpoint the problem without seeing the details. Posting screenshots is probably the only way to ensure getting accurate help. In the meantime, potential financial problems:

- Sevilla trade node is one of the worst in a vacuum. Tons of fish and wine. It's often not enough to merely dominate it or diminish loss to Genoa; it needs outside trade flowing in to make it rich. Experiment with perhaps focusing on pulling more rather than collecting the most.
- Are you paying state maintenance on CN territory? Be careful here: unless they changed/fixed it, I believe CN formation won't remove your state and will then block its removal since now you don't own it.
- Do you have a ton of heavy ships? These cost a fortune in upkeep and you may want to keep them mothballed or even sell some for now. A lot of Atlantic-coast nations start with heavies they can't really afford (Scotland can be terribly hamstrung by its own navy for example).
- Too many forts? I find most forts are a bit wasteful in single player.

 

[Tisifoni12]

Cmon just post a screenshot of your finances man.

Like I said I don't have a save from then and I'm not wasting time trying to reproduce it. I think it was down to the 2g maintenance combined with colony growth being slow.

Do you have a ton of heavy ships?

Only 3 Yerm, the 3 that Portugal starts with.

 

[InvictusLampada]

Personally i wouldnt drop your fleet maintenance, just army. The 3 heavies can be useful in minimising the berber raids on the iberian coast as well as certian Breton/English privateers. Other than the heavies, ships cost virtually nothing to maintain so you mayaswell keep them at max. Army maintenance is instantly set to 100% if you enter a war so dont be afraid to turn it right down (just be aware that youll still have to rebuild the morale once its back up)

 

[LegatusI]

Are you playing EUIV or Portugal 2016?

 

[solidprice]

Where is the financial picture?

POR can afford to pay for cap unless you get bad events or cas/eng gets you into some sticky wars.

 

[Atlanteax]

Colonising the uninhabited Cape Verde islands and only the Cape Verde islands as a first colony is colonising aggressively ?

I think the poster meant "aggressively" as in having more colonies than you do colonists, as the costs increase exponentially.

 

[Tisifoni12]

Started another game, everything going okay. Settled Cape Verde islands. Then sent colonists to Pernambuco. Losing a little gold each month, but only 0.25ish. Got one of those 200 settlers in new province or 50 in an existing province events. Decided this time (didn't in previous game) as I had only one colonist to take the additional province. Suddenly I'm losing 6 gold per month instead of 2 or 4 for colonies. I have taken a screenshot.

 

[Ketilsen]

Colonial maintenance goes up linearly for each colony beyond your number of Colonists; so for each one with a Colonist, you pay 2/month, then it's 4, 6, 8, 10 etc for each beyond that. This means that you really really shouldn't go beyond your Colonist limit until later in the game when you can afford it.

Edit: also, who are you paying Harbor fees to, and why? You really shouldn't need that for anything. And as ever with Forts: dismantle the ones you don't need, and mothball the ones you do need. "Do need" is roughly equivalent to "defending a border where I expect attack", but might also mean "no, you don't need any".

 

[Tisifoni12]

Have no idea why I'm paying harbour fees, but there always seem to be harbour fees . . .
2 forts Ceuta and Lisboa, which is kind of the minimum.
Aha ! TY for the clarification. I should have gone with +50 at Pernambuco . . .

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

Reduce your army and fort maintenance and stop paying the harbour fees and you'll have a balanced budget even though you are colonising above your limit. Your financial situation is great.

Edit: Also, why are you exploring with 10 ships? You only need 3, mothball the rest. And are you not protecting trade with your remaining lights? Do these things and you'll soon be turning a healthy profit