Portuguese financial crisis

[Tisifoni12]

I started a game as Portugal, a nation I never really played before, with the new Denmark update.

1. Gained control of Melilla and Tangiers
2. Explored out into the Indian Ocean
3. Embraced the Renaissance
4. Colonised the Cape Verde islands
5. Discovered America
6. Established a colony at Sierra Leone
7. Started haemorrhaging money. Even with Sierra Leone colony established still haemorrhaging money and 2 x 79 loans

Is the cost of embracing the Renaissance worth it, is it worth delaying, like does the cost drop much ?

 

[Chagall]

The cost depends on the amount of development in provinces that have not yet embraced renaissance. If you are not going to tech up you can wait with embracing it.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Is the cost of embracing the Renaissance worth it, is it worth delaying, like does the cost drop much ?

It is based on how much development there is in your provinces without the institution. Waiting for natural spread can reduce the price a lot (minimum 1 ducat).

 

[Anonomoosle]

It is based on how much development there is in your provinces without the institution. Waiting for natural spread can reduce the price a lot (minimum 1 ducat).

Ooh I didn't know that, That'll be very useful

 

[Tisifoni12]

It is based on how much development there is in your provinces without the institution. Waiting for natural spread can reduce the price a lot (minimum 1 ducat).

Ah, didn't see that on the Wiki when I looked, and initially got the impression that the cost might in the short term at least go up, it seemed to jump from 280+ to 290+, but then I went back to an earlier save and it did drop to something like 210+ or 240+.

Just colonising the Cape Verde islands pretty much drained my treasury without that cost on top.

 

[Sfan]

Did you build a lot of heavies, of forts, or got high level advisors ? Because colonizing should not drain your treasury as Portugal anyway.

 

[ecrurudesby]

Started haemorrhaging money. Even with Sierra Leone colony established still haemorrhaging money and 2 x 79 loans

In addition to Sfan's questions above, are you colonising more provinces than you have colonists? Because that is very expensive no matter what country you are.

Also how big is your army and force limit? And do you have a lot of artillery?

 

[Philadelphus]

Ah, didn't see that on the Wiki when I looked, and initially got the impression that the cost might in the short term at least go up, it seemed to jump from 280+ to 290+, but then I went back to an earlier save and it did drop to something like 210+ or 240+.

I'm guessing you increased your amount of owned development between checking, either through conquest, colonization, or just developing a province. I think it's 2.5 ducats per development level, so if it jumped 10 you must've increased by 4 development .

 

[Tisifoni12]

No, did none of those. Having just one colony was draining my treasury. Went back a few saves and managed to stabilise after colonising Cape Verde. But then decided to colonise at the trade node on the Ivory Coast. By the time I completed the colonisation I had three loans piled up and Portugal's income after costs each month was only around 0.2 gold.

Is there some significant advantage in delaying colonisation until you're in 'the age of colonisation' ?

All my prov's have gone Renaissance except my colonies. I guess I shouldn't have converted them to states.

The massive build up of cost of progressing in admin, diplomatic and military makes me want to spend points on other stuff, knowing the level cost will drop dramatically when I Embrace the Renaissance, but that seems counter-productive.

 

[Tisifoni12]

In addition to Sfan's questions above, are you colonising more provinces than you have colonists? Because that is very expensive no matter what country you are.

Also how big is your army and force limit? And do you have a lot of artillery?

No, actually colonising only one and have two colonists*. Also have no artillery. 14,000 men which is under my force limit.

* Has the cost of maintaining a colonist been significantly increased ?

 

[Xiahou Mao]

Colonist costs haven't increased, no.

Make sure you're reducing your military maintenance when at peace. Capturing Tangiers and Melilla will boost your trade income, but cause some short-term pain from revolt risk and conversion, so be wary of that. Mothball your Heavy Ships at peace as well, and if you don't have the expansion that lets you do that, consider disbanding them entirely after your initial war against Morocco.

Choose your advisors wisely. You might want to skip a military advisor if funds are a problem. A Diplo advisor (especially a Trader) helps you to get points for your first ideas, so make that a priority ahead of the other two types. A +2 advisor is going to be too pricey.

 

[Brynjar]

A screenshot of your financial overview would make it alot easier to figure out what is causing your problems.

 

[oros]

The cost depends on the amount of development in provinces that have not yet embraced renaissance. If you are not going to tech up you can wait with embracing it.

Just adding that the autonomy of the province also affects the price.
So, raising a province to 25% autonomy will reduce its embracing cost by 25%.

Edit :
The formula for a province cost seems to be
1 + dev * autonomy * 2 * (1 - reduction)

 

[Tisifoni12]

Ignoring the Renaissance thing which I now understand. I went back in Brynjar to see if I had a save from mid colonisation of the Cape Verde islands, but must have deleted.
I had acquired Melilla and Tangiers. I had not added to my army or fleet. I had not built any more castles. The only constructions I'd done were markets in Lisbon and Oporto. I had a something like 220 - 240 gold and decided to colonise the Cape Verde islands. That slowly drained my treasury and I ended up with I think two loans before the colony hit 1,000.

Is there some penalty now for colonising before you're in the 'Age of Colonisation' ?
Have costs changed ?

I've played this game before as Spain, France, England and Mali* and colonised without going bankrupt.

* Mali colonising Brazil.

 

[Pile_O_Gunz]

Portugals income is just low at the start as the country is small. I think there's another 2 provinces in morroco belonging to the Seville trade node also try get your hands on Grenada if you can.


Sounds like you colonising very aggressively. Don't commit all your money and effort into colonizing as unless you grow Portugal itself the colony lib desire gets out of control.

 

[Tisifoni12]

Sounds like you colonising very aggressively.

Colonising the uninhabited Cape Verde islands and only the Cape Verde islands as a first colony is colonising aggressively ?

 

[Facepalm]

You could check your balance sheet for details of your expenses to look up what costs you so much.

It will for example tell you exactly what your settlers cost. Or how much you spend on corruption, etc.

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

Colonising the uninhabited Cape Verde islands and only the Cape Verde islands as a first colony is colonising aggressively ?

No, it isn't, and you shouldn't be having such a hard time financially.

As others have said, make sure you mothball all your heavies and transports, mothball your forts, drop army maintenance and don't take Renaissance before you absolutely have to. Also, if you haven't already, make sure you get rid of the fort in Tangier since it is redundant with the one in Ceuta, don't hire advisors beyond level 1, sell off any extra galleys, heavies or transports you might have picked up in wars, etc. If you could give us a screenshot of your budget screen we might be able to give you more specific advice.

 

[Alienatu]

you could delete any forts you have in the homeland (lisbon and algarve?). keep only Ceuta -> mothballed.
do you have mercs ? do you have advisors ? i don't think portugal can really afford them in the beginning.
try and keep your costs to a minimum in the early game and save money to buy churches at tech 4. if you build them in most of your homeland, you ll get enough monthly ducats to support a colony.

regarding colonies, your priority should be the carribean islands. they are rich. once you form a CN there, spain won't colonize in the region (papal sanctions or something) so you re free to take them fully, unless a protestant/reformed country comes around (i m looking at you, England).

 

[Republic of Mercury]

If I had to guess, I'd say the problem you're having is that, before colonising South-America or Indonesia, and without eating a bunch of castillian land, Portugal just doesn't make much money.

But yes, a screenshot of your economy screen would be helpful. Maybe you have more advisors than you can afford?