Portuguese AAR 1492 - 1568 (Part one)

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Originally posted by PIcolano
Kestrel:

There is no doubt that Portugal is a pain in the rear to play; I have just started the GC, and am taking an alternate approach to the AAR just written. I am building infrastructure, exploring, upgrading fortresses, establishing colonies, and cultivating a relationship with Spain that I will hopefully become allied with; this should enable me to punt the Morroccans out of N Africa (free casus belli until 1510).
The main challenge is the poor quality of leaders across the board for Portugal; bring a boatload of troops to attack anything....
I should have played Spain first, but it's too darn easy to play the favorite...(I've only had the game a day so far...) If you play Portugal in the GC, best of luck....

Ciao,

Paul

Be careful of relying on spain too much, half the reason i decide to attack spain was because her lack of support for me. This convinced me that we could not co-exist. If in your GC all is well then good luck to you However i would ensure a large home defense just in case.

Remember the portuguese were governed by spain from 1580 - 1640 because of a dynastic claim to their vacant throne. This could actually happen to you [the engine seems to allow this event too] and spain could muscle in at anytime. I decide to eliminate and contain that possibility freeing europe and ensuring that the spanish could not send a large enough force to contain the netherlands movement for independance. I didnt save them just helped out indirectly

 

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Rebellions

I don't know exactly what is causing the rebellions but if you leave the cursor over the revolt risk item that is revealed when you click on the capital building in the sidebar it will give you a detailed list of all modifiers to revolt so that war taxes and war weariness would be listed if they currently impact your revolt risk. You can also check back in a few years to see if they increase or decrease based on your actions.

 

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I did play a Portugal game last night, or at least started one. Didn't go well. I had money problems from the get-go, even with a large trading empire, my infrastructure was too low to get much of an advantage out of it (only 25% was actually coming in.) Allied with Spain early, which became a problem when I was drawn into a war with France and her allies. France conquered Lorraine early, and I could not make peace with her or her allies, tried 8-10 times, various levels of tributes, no luck. Started getting seriously in debt from taking loans to pay tribute, so money problems were getting worse and worse. Maybe I'll go back to it this weekend.

 

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Baston:

I have finally gotten to 1504 (without system crashes). Good news; the Muslim infidels don't handle cannon well. I also declared war (Casus Belli), and let them attack me (as well as suffer attrition). I was able to defeat them entirely in a year and a half, with absolutely no help from those worthless Spanish allies I had so recently courted. Bad news, however, I have lost most of my explorers; they seem to be having a hard time finding anything except the bottom of the ocean. Any clues, anyone out there...? Also, had to upgrade important things like the fortress for Tangiers; it looks like I may have to declare bankruptcy, but have stalled for the time being....

Ciao for Now,

Paul

P.S. - Thanks Wasa for the excellent advice!

 

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Kestrel:

I know about the money woes, believe me. You would figure that Portugal would be more advanced than what they are; I'm looking at bankruptcy. I blew off Spain after they hosed me; now everyone's pissed. Oh well, at least it's a challenging game for a beginner....

Ciao,

Paul

 

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Originally posted by PIcolano
Baston:

I have finally gotten to 1504 (without system crashes). Good news; the Muslim infidels don't handle cannon well. I also declared war (Casus Belli), and let them attack me (as well as suffer attrition). I was able to defeat them entirely in a year and a half, with absolutely no help from those worthless Spanish allies I had so recently courted. Bad news, however, I have lost most of my explorers; they seem to be having a hard time finding anything except the bottom of the ocean. Any clues, anyone out there...? Also, had to upgrade important things like the fortress for Tangiers; it looks like I may have to declare bankruptcy, but have stalled for the time being....

Good idea to play defensively versus the moroccans Like i said you cant trust the spanish... i opted for an alliance that would damage their prized northern and central european possessions and that worked nice... i was unable to see any real show of force in iberia thankfully. As for the explorers i too found this though not to the same extent... i think you need to spend more time 'coast hugging' although thats probably not true. I got as far as argentina in south america and to the cost of vietnam in asia. Not bad...

As for bankruptcy i have declared it twice now along with the government being toppled [that wasa scary moment], but all is okay... i am now able to repay loans and have a stable income... its not great but it allows me to build up troops fairly rapidly.

I have however neglected my colonial duties and south america is a patch work of dutch, spanish and french terroitories... i am more interested in retaking north africa and holding the iberia mainland...

I have an idea [use cannon] but has anyone got a good idea for an invasion of morocco from andalucia? I.e where to hit first and rough force sizes?

 

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Originally posted by Kestrel
I did play a Portugal game last night, or at least started one. Didn't go well. I had money problems from the get-go, even with a large trading empire, my infrastructure was too low to get much of an advantage out of it (only 25% was actually coming in.) Allied with Spain early, which became a problem when I was drawn into a war with France and her allies. France conquered Lorraine early, and I could not make peace with her or her allies, tried 8-10 times, various levels of tributes, no luck. Started getting seriously in debt from taking loans to pay tribute, so money problems were getting worse and worse. Maybe I'll go back to it this weekend.

I have been seriously in debt before but i found a lightning offensive at spain straight away solved this... andulucia is an amazingly wealthly province and much prized by me... next on my hitlist is the almost equally rich but well defended province of toledo.

 

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Baston:

What is currently in Morocco? When they assaulted me, they had approximately 25k cavalry, although you should be at a tech advantage over them. Go for the bollocks, man, and retake Tangiers, or even Morocco itself. You should win with at least a 2/0/1 leader, (pretty much the Portuguese norm) and even odds, since you are a bit more technologically advanced....
Didn't get to play last night, but plan to kill this go around....
Good Luck!!

Paul

P.S. - Keep up the AARs...

 

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Originally posted by PIcolano
Baston:

What is currently in Morocco? When they assaulted me, they had approximately 25k cavalry, although you should be at a tech advantage over them. Go for the bollocks, man, and retake Tangiers, or even Morocco itself. You should win with at least a 2/0/1 leader, (pretty much the Portuguese norm) and even odds, since you are a bit more technologically advanced....
Didn't get to play last night, but plan to kill this go around....
Good Luck!!

Paul

P.S. - Keep up the AARs...

They had 40k when i first approached them and now they have tangiers... in the invasions i must admit they used fairly small forces which were easily destroyed. I suppose with a large enough force i could attack them... okay i will... i think spain have a good enough grip for now and warring against them is causing rebellions now

Morocco here i come!

PS let me know a good easy province to capture first....

 

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Baston:

Beneath Tangiers and Morocco are two provinces that are pieces of crap belonging to the infidels. To be dead honest with you, however, go straight at the main force; make certain your cavalry is roughly equal to his, though. Don't forget to split your cavalry off before you begin siegeing his forces, however. You should improve relations with all of the Catholic brethren....

Let Me Know how you Fare...

Paul

 

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Originally posted by PIcolano
Baston:

Beneath Tangiers and Morocco are two provinces that are pieces of crap belonging to the infidels. To be dead honest with you, however, go straight at the main force; make certain your cavalry is roughly equal to his, though. Don't forget to split your cavalry off before you begin siegeing his forces, however. You should improve relations with all of the Catholic brethren....

Let Me Know how you Fare...

Paul

Possibly thanks to me losing tangiers when i scouted down there i found 20k in the sahara (wtf!) and 66k just above it... before that were 40k in tangiers... needless to say even with my relatively large expiditionary force of 45k it wasnt worth it... as you will see i made btter use of it

 

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1615 - 1618 Toledo falls

Felipe II had been considering many things over the months leading up to the beginning of 1615. He had heard rumours of the demise of morocco but also of the further weknesses of the spanish empire... most notably the more powerful partners dropping out of the alliance with them. He decided to extensively investigate each option. He authorised the massive scale construction of a huge fleet to take a large army deep into the heart of morocco. The army was well organised and strong and it set sail in early 1614, however the news of the voyage was not good... it appeared the moroccan host was far larger than anticipated. Significantly larger in fact. At that point a key decision was made. The expidition was called off and the fleet salled back to andalusia. Landing they were told to prepare for an invasion of spain once again. The king it seemed had a plan.

By early 1615 the portguese army was an impressive combined force of some 120,000 soldiers, calvary and cannon... however given the widely known poor leadership they were to remain large static armies in key provinces... most notably Leon and the volatile province of Andalusia itself... the expiditionary force that had recently landed was told to target and capture Toledo at ALL costs.

1615 - 1617 9th Spanish War

The war began with Portugal declaring war on spain and duly noted was the strong alliance but one that lacked a key component, France. We could only count on the small german province of Baden, and our so called friends in the province of Lorraine dishnored us for the last time. Allied against us was the hanseatic league, hungary, the Papal States, Genoa and Venice. Venice was to provide the missing component of the spanish army and caused considerable trouble. Early on Leon was attacked hard by both venetians and spaniards and it was the scene of one gruesome battle after another ... Toledo finally fell in July 1616, and Castille itself in April 1617... with these two cpatured provinces we were able to demand Toledo be annexed to our kingdom and it was duly signed over by treaty on May 6th 1617.

Everywhere in Portugal there was rejoicing, lisbon was once again proud of her sons. By no means professional the portuguese army had silenced venetian and the much feared sanish nations. Toledo, by far, was the richest province in Iberia... twice as rich as Andalusia. A truly awesome prize and one portugal intends very much to keep.

Folloing on from the end of the war Felipe II suddenly realised how lax he and his predecessors had been with colonialism, scattered trading posts and only two colonies in south america... he authorised a fleet to sail to asia. God only knows if they will make it, but for now... in iberia, portugal is THE major power.

* Compared to spain, morocco looked bloody dangerous!

 

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Kudos!!

Baston:

Way to kick a little Spanish derriere! I still believe that you may have been able to handle the Moroccans, although it would have been a real drawn out conflict. You did far better taking out the Spanish ahead of time...

I am going to attempt to colonize Morocco so they can convert to my state religion....

Beware, infidel scum! Portugal, the scorge of God, is upon you!! Convert, or die!!

Ciao,

Paul

 

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I have a question (for anyone really)- how do you match a provincial religon with the state religon... the province of andalusia only seems to revolt because it is sunni... be aware of this when you start taking moroccan provinces.

Now that i have the richest province i may re-focus on morocco, however unlike your campaig my friend in mine they seem positively lethal!

 

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edict of tolerance in portugal

In 1619 two serious revolts broke out in portugal for two very different reasons and both were resolved. In Andalusia, still heavily populated with muslims, the revolt was continually with regards to religious matters. In Toldeo it was an uprising by native born spaniards unhappy at the acquisition by portugal. Filipe II listened carefully to his closest ministers and issued a provlamation of tolerance... from here on catholics and moslems were to be treated as equals... protestants and the orthodoxy were all but shunned. The effect as instant and well received. Ministerial positions became occupied by muslims administrators and the role of the muslim faith in Portugal was accepted throughout the country. In toledo, unfortunately, it was imp;y a matter of time. Filipe was forced to station tens of thousands of troops there to contain the massive uprisings that were occuring there.

In 1620 turkey went to war with venice and drew in spain to the conflict. Even in there moment of 'weakness' it was decided in the interest of national stability to avoid war with spain. Filipe II died content with his accomplishments, he had brought in the richest province of spain and ensured that it remain controlled as were all rebellions. A truly great monarch.

The reign of Filipe III has so far been one of stronger unity in portugal. The exisiting alliance we had with lorraine and baden could not be honoured as we risked facing an alliance comprised of france, england and scotland. In 1621 he oversaw a trade embargo on turkey as this muslim nation was expanding into europe... fortunately though at the expense of one of the stronger partners of spain, Venice. Toledo revolted consitently in these passing years, 1623 - 1627 and shows no sign of abating just yet. Portugal is forced to keep a massive army there just to control the pro-spanish province. Filipe III was also keen to seek a stronger alliance, although further away he found it in a russo-swedish alliance we would at least occupy the strong poland-lithuanian empire.

Its 1627 and filipe is contemplating his next move, a fleet of ships has been sailing up and down the coast of north africa only to see morocco very much in control and the weaker nations still able to call on such allies and france and spain. Once again a portuguese monarch is force to look at iberia and again at spain.

 

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Originally posted by Baston
I have a question (for anyone really)- how do you match a provincial religon with the state religon... the province of andalusia only seems to revolt because it is sunni... be aware of this when you start taking moroccan provinces.

Now that i have the richest province i may re-focus on morocco, however unlike your campaig my friend in mine they seem positively lethal!

To follow up on this, in a voyage in 1627 i saw a combined total of some 250 thousand moroccans in large army groups in each of their provinces - it was staggering... there is no way in hads i am going there! One was 88k (largest i have ever seen yet).

 

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So Far, So Good

Baston:

I have finally reached 1522. Currently I have colonies developed in South Africa, North Africa (the former Morocco) the Middle East, India, and South America. I haven't attacked Spain, since I have surprisingly good relations with them; some of my colonies have grown to decent cities, which have added to yearly revenues.
My alliances have been decent, as well. I was fortunate to get into an alliance with the Venetians; they handled a difficult revolt (Morocco, go figure) and quashed it; I am now besieging it, and hope to see it fall soon....
I did go bankrupt once (no surprise), but managed to build stability back up. I should be alright until revenues start coming in from my colonial cities....

Keep up the AAR - I've enjoyed it...

Paul

 

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Enjoying the AAR very much. Nice job of bouncing back from setbacks.

I too am a newbie playing Portugal. After some re-starts (didn't have any idea what I was doing when I started) I'm starting to progress nicely.

I defeated Morocco and annexed them by 1503. I had the good fortune of getting a decent leader (Cameode?). He attacked and defeated the Moroccan force in Fez, then assaulted and captured its fortress. I had a secondary (and smaller force) land in the province to the south. While the secondary force didn't win, they tied up the Moroccan forces long enough for my main force to get there (takes a loong time w/ cannon). However, once I assailed the Sahara province, I lost my general and attrition took 23k of my 28k remaining force. Still managed to get it though.

I'm now planting TP's and colonies in SA and NA and have a port in Table (South Africa). I took a province from the Aztecs (with only 10k soldiers I couldn't defeat them totally) and that has helped a lot with the money situation. Anxiously awaiting trade level 3 to secure monopolies. I also allied with the Iriquois.

My next big decision is whether to go after Zanzibar and make my way to India or attack Spain. I have an alliance with Brandenburg, Hannover and the Hanseatic league which would tie the Spaish up in the low countries.
Andalusia should would be nice.

 

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Zanzibar

Hey Fritz:

It sounds like you are almost where I am; I currently have Zanzibar under siege; I am expecting it to fall at any moment. Don't forget you have a sugar province two down from Table.
My philosophy is if you take Zanzibar, you have a ready made port to exploit the Far East and its possessions. I would go for it if you have at least a force of 10k to handle the job....

Let me know how it goes...

Paul

 

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Hello Paul.

I'm not sure how I can pull off taking Zanzibar.
It's a province of Oman -- would merely taking it be enough? Furthermore, Algiers is allied with them, and they have a sizable force right next door. I don't have the funds (or a general) to fight their force . . .

Let me know how your fight went.