Portugese Sloops

[Semi-Lobster]

I was curious if anyone has any in depth info on the Portugese sloops Goncalo Velho, Goncalves Zarco, Alfonso de Albuquerque, Bartolomeu Dias, Carvalho Araujoor Republica. Also any info on the Zaire class guboats (Damao, Dio and Zaire) would be nice. I know when All of these ships where launched and when most where decommisioned but when where they laid down and when where they commisioned? Also any info on their armament, displacement and possibly armour.
In advance, thank you to anyone who can help me.

 

[unmerged(18522)]

what period are we looking at here?

 

[Lethke]

All i found is this page:
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/portuguese_navy.htm

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Constantine VII: These ships where all commisioned from 1915 to 1936
Lethke: I've already been to that page. Lots of Picures and dates but no info I need or don't already know.

 

[unmerged(18522)]

Sorry not to get back sooner:
VELHO class
goncalves zarco- 950t displacement, 3-120mm, 4-40mm, 4 Depthcharge throwers max speed 16.5kts
launched 28/11/1932

ALBUQUERQUE class

1780t displacement, 4-120mm, 2-76mm, 4-40mm, 2DC throwers, 40 mines, top speed 21kts, built hawthorn leslie, alfonso- 28/5/1934, dias- 10/10/1934

anymore info just ask, wasn sure exactly what else you wanted.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Thank you so much! Are you using Conway's? Well any info on the other ships would be a great help as well!

 

[unmerged(18522)]

yep! am using amixture of conways and janes as i have most of them. will send some more details later when i get the books infront of me. i like the albuquerque class, they seem like decent little ships.

why are you collecting this info, if it is not too rude a question?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I am looking for info on these ships because I am helping the HoI mod, C.O.R.E. collect information on diffrent countries navies to make them more historically accurate.
I'd buy Conway's myself but it's rather expensive. What Jane's book are you using?

 

[Gwalcmai]

Just a teeeeeeeny nitpick. It's spelled Afonso, not Alfonso. And the Afonso de Albuquerque class was supposedly designed to operate floatplanes, too.

It was also the last portuguese ship to be sunk in combat, by the Indian Union in 1961 (that's completely irrelevant for CORE, of course).

All those sloops were part of a plan to rearm the portuguese navy in the 30s. The full plan called for 8 Velho class, 4 Albuquerque, 2 CL and 12 Douro class DD, together with a kind of light aviation cruiser (like the swedish Gotland), a submarine tender and 7 or 8 Delfim class subs. This was cancelled because the SCW started and Portugal turned the budget to land matters.

Semi-Lobster, I've been over this with MDow, but feel free to try to convince him to include the ships anyway.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

You can never have too many sloops! The Albuquerque class sloops will easily get in the game. The Velhos had a decent chance but not a 100%. I would really like any info on the gunboats before I submit these ships to the mercy of Matedow.

 

[Gwalcmai]

Oh, but they are in, the Albuquerques that is. The Velhos were just too small and slow. I mean, Portugal had built the Douro class DDs at this time, and they were based on the British A-class, with displacements of over 1300 tons and they still hold the speed record for portuguese navy ships, established in trials. I don't think it is very good to include single ships that were significantly weaker than the flotilla'd units in the navy, makes things look weird. They were probably weaker than the WWI gunboats and torpedo boats that made up numbers. If you look at the portuguese OOB in CORE, maybe the 2nd destroyer flotilla you find there represents the Velhos and the other WWI stuff (gunboats, torpedo boats, minesweepers) that was still termed operational (although it probably wasn't ). What might be fun is convincing MDow to include the subs, although there were only 3 of them.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Destroyers are not in C.O.R.E. individually but sloops are the most basic (model 0) in the game and are represented as individual ships.

 

[Gwalcmai]

But that's just it, we're talking about introducing individual ships that were considerably smaller than the destroyers (which are considered too small to be included individually). 950t displacement is about the size of a model 1 destroyer in 0.64, IIRC. The Douro class destroyers already fit in model 4. And the armament of the Velhos was just about what you'd find on a destroyer, AFAIK. So the fact that the portuguese navy chose to call them sloops (they were "2nd-class sloops", IIRC) doesn't really make them the equal of other sloops that'll be showing up. It would be more appropriate to call them destroyers, or even corvettes than sloops.

BTW, anyone have info on the difference between the Velho class and the Nunes class 2nd-class sloops?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

A lot of really light ships are in the game. The Ratanoksindra and the Sukhothai where both gunboats under 950 t (allbeit pretty modern little ships with 152mm guns) and are in the game. Remember model 0 in C.O.R.E. is specifically for sloops, model 1 and 2 are protected and armoured cruisers which are from the WWI era, light cruisers are well light cruisers designed before the London Naval Treaty. And you know the rest.