Erm, that's exactly why it is the MOST appealing admin set to tack onto it. Half-price manufactories? yes please.
Portugal
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Erm, that's exactly why it is the MOST appealing admin set to tack onto it. Half-price manufactories? yes please.
No, that's why it's the least appealing of all admin groups. With limited colonization you don't need that many manufactures early on, when ducats are scarce, and later on money isn't a problem anymore. MPs, not money, is a limiting factor for Portugal.
It's not possible to block Castille entirely, however, you should try and monopolise Caribbean, Chesapeake Bay, and Ivory coast. Direct IVC->Caribbean->Chesapeake and collect there. Ignore advice from others saying you should direct all trade to Seville. You get so much more by monopolising and collecting in new world trade nodes. There's less competition, which means you keep more ducats.
If you block others by colonising around them you can annex them at your leisure. When you do it's probably easiest to just annex them in one go.
Mali, and german OPM's, especially frankfurt. They usually have a fair bit of gold stored that can be used to fund your colonial empire. But early on, just send a merchant to brazil, caribbean etc as you begin colonising and collect.
Gold provinces are essential early on. So get Sus first from morocco, then Bure, Bambuk, and Kumasi from Mali. They will net you a nice income early on and will help fund your expansions.
Expansion, Trade, Offensive, Quality. For a serious coloniser, it's best to go Exploration->Expansion->Trade if you want to maximise your growth and income. I like to take Offensive as my forth idea group because it really helps with generals discipline.
Papal state, Vassals, Allies. You want a Fez vassal (to feed berber provinces) asap if your goal is to dominate north africa (which it should be).
Yoke?
Spain lives off my benevolence. By 1700 there is no power in the world that can rival Portugal (although Russia's Asia spanning blob has the most manpower). The reason to ally them early is simply so that they act as a buffer so you don't have to deal at all with France or Austria blobs. Think of Spain as Portugal's shock absorber.
As for dominating the Sevilla node, despite having only the original Portuguese provinces, plus Tangiers and Cetua, in 1700 Portugal has 92% of the trade power in the node and collects around 1100 ducats a month from trade alone (it will be a lot more when all the trade buildings in China are finished). And that was my first attempt, begun when I first started playing this game in September, and recently returned to just to complete. You could easily do better since I didn't have a clue about vassal feeding or how to manage AE or anything really when I started and quit sometime in the 16th century only to return to play that save game recently.
Sometime in the 18th century, I suppose that I'll crush Spain and possibly France and Austria for want of anything better to do after I finish off grabbing all of China, Japan and India since all the world is colonized (mostly by me). I can do this mostly with mercenaries since there has to be something to purchase with all the cash that keeps piling up. Mercenaries are nice to use when cash is unimportant since they don't lower your manpower, and take only a week or two to recruit.
It's not close to a total WC, but I find WC to be too boring to do.
For Portugal it's a good idea to start with Exploration, then Trade, then an Admin Idea, (Religious is probably best for better relations over time bonus, although I didn't realize that and took Economic), then Offensive, then Diplomatic. Then I took Expansion although you could take Naval if you wanted or another Military idea. You will fall a bit behind on Diplotech at first, but will catch back up nicely when doing your 3rd idea group (Admin or Military). And you will receive the nice neighbor bonus.
It's really a waste the way the AI plays Portugal. Portugal is the single best combined colonizing and trade power in the game, because of the early start. If you grab Exploration as soon as possible, and start grabbing those colonies, everybody else is going to eventually set out colonizing only to find you already have seized the best colonies and have locked up the trade route to Asia.
Getting the early jump on seizing the Cape of Good Hope means no European competition in Asia at all because then they won't have the colonial range to get to Asia until late in the game. Spain has a few colonies in Asia by 1650, which are totally harmless since they help trade steer to Sevilla where Portugal grabs all the money. Nobody else has any presence in Asia at all.
Do it this way and it's almost too easy. You grab India and China and there's no European rival to worry about.
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Swahili had 10,000 ducats just sitting there doing nothing. They and Mali can each be robbed twice without bothering to steal their gold provinces, just grab their money and then wait until they accumulate more and rob them again. The Aztecs (or Mayans) have a nice pile, but they tend to spend it on fighting other Indians.
If you have a nice vassal to feed Berber provinces to, Sus is a great early pick-up.
Completely disagree. You're also ignoring the boost that +production from economics gives to both colony production and colony growth. A portion of your production efficiency is translated directly into colonist settler chance. Higher efficiency = less time to reach city status.
Money doesn't suddenly just become "not a factor". The less any building costs, the sooner you'll be able to build it. The sooner you build it, the sooner it pays off. The sooner it pays off, the sooner money becomes "not a factor". Compounding your gains can't help but improve your situation. What do you need religious for? You're not converting anything, except possibly pagan acquisitions which have such a huge boost to begin with that the tree will only be shaving off a month or two. You're not conquering anything in a place that matters to anyone, so BROT won't be doing anything.
Thanks. If I do start over, I am intrigued by the expansion idea. Easy to explore enough of the new world with the starting explorers (though 3, not 4), but asia seems dicey, and it's a LONG time until some key discoveries there spread. How did you manage it? (Indonesian especially.)
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I like the Morocco strategy, but isn't it dependent on getting a revolt in Ceuta? I have been "lucky" enough not to in the first 40 years.
It's a nice perk to get a free 200 admin points if it happens. It can usually be queued by 'suppressing' Berber rebels if that little choice event happens. Oddly enough, when I chose that in my recent game, no rebels actually spawned. It was weird. And after that, I also had that 'lucky' streak. I think I ended up just selling Ceuta to Morocco or something to fulfill the 'religious unity' quest.
With Expansion and no Exploration, you depend on discovery spread. Early explorers are used to open one-two uncharted sea zone at once before resting at port. Often, you can chart parts of India and China with losing one, max two explorers. Since you will mostly conquer provinces from rich locals, it's not that bad. If you absolutely must, substitute one of military ideas with Exploration, but dip points are very scarce when you focus on trade buildings and vassal feeding at once.
I disagree with Xara on usefulness of Economic and uselessness of Religious. Many provinces you'd conquer are high tax, often Muslim, and +%MC is important prior to admin lvl 15. Plus, extra missionary is godsend when converting China. He got a point about production efficiency, but most ideas in Economic are wasted on Portugal.
You went from talking about a peaceful no-conquest colonization game. Now you're talking about Asian Invasions? Of course that changes things. The ideas in economic are absolutely not wasted on a colonizing Portugal. Most people severely underestimate Economic. The sooner you build, the sooner it pays off. Can't emphasize that enough.
@Xara:
For such strategy initial explorers are enough, and both Innovative and Religious are better than Economic.
For such strategy initial explorers are enough, and both Innovative and Religious are better than Economic.
Thanks all. Some suggestions are helping with this play through, others will help with the next.
One specific new question. I am wondering if my trade is growing as fast as it should. I do understand that the big trade payoffs won't come for quite a while, but the ramp up seems slow. Here is where I am now:
1507. Aztecs annexed and released. Colonization continues, though mostly one colony at a time to avoid prohibitive costs. Most (5) colonies are in SA, but one is in the Caribbean, Cape Verde of course, Fernando Po, one colony near Kongo, and the Cape. Took Benin, otherwise just have my colonies and 5 provinces from Mail. Buddies with Castille, who is finally starting to colonize. Economy is in much better shape than it was, but more because of gold than trade. Specifically, trade is a meager 7.34 gold per month. I picked trade as my second idea group & am following trade advice I've read here and elsewhere.
Is that low for this stage of the game? Or is it still too soon to expect big returns from trade?
Somewhat related, should I be burning gold to colonize more than one location at once? Two I could manage, more than that would probably not be doable at my current income level.
One specific new question. I am wondering if my trade is growing as fast as it should. I do understand that the big trade payoffs won't come for quite a while, but the ramp up seems slow. Here is where I am now:
1507. Aztecs annexed and released. Colonization continues, though mostly one colony at a time to avoid prohibitive costs. Most (5) colonies are in SA, but one is in the Caribbean, Cape Verde of course, Fernando Po, one colony near Kongo, and the Cape. Took Benin, otherwise just have my colonies and 5 provinces from Mail. Buddies with Castille, who is finally starting to colonize. Economy is in much better shape than it was, but more because of gold than trade. Specifically, trade is a meager 7.34 gold per month. I picked trade as my second idea group & am following trade advice I've read here and elsewhere.
Is that low for this stage of the game? Or is it still too soon to expect big returns from trade?
Somewhat related, should I be burning gold to colonize more than one location at once? Two I could manage, more than that would probably not be doable at my current income level.
The big trade bucks come from directing trade from India, relying on gold until you get there is fine. You should be aiming to get to India by 1520 at the latest though.
Colonise the Gold Coast, it's an important centre of trade and will help stop the african states from leeching your trade.
Otherwise, colonise provinces next to Kongo and Swahili and DoW/Vassalise them ASAP: They give both naval bases and stop them using their trade power against you.
Once you reach the Gulf of Aden DoW someone to get Aden/Muscat (whoever is weakest). Don't worry about not having a CB, you need to start eating up provinces in that trade node, all eastern trade flows through it.
Finally, work on the Cape colony to prevent other European powers from following you to India.
Colonise the Gold Coast, it's an important centre of trade and will help stop the african states from leeching your trade.
Otherwise, colonise provinces next to Kongo and Swahili and DoW/Vassalise them ASAP: They give both naval bases and stop them using their trade power against you.
Once you reach the Gulf of Aden DoW someone to get Aden/Muscat (whoever is weakest). Don't worry about not having a CB, you need to start eating up provinces in that trade node, all eastern trade flows through it.
Finally, work on the Cape colony to prevent other European powers from following you to India.
You keep saying that but you haven't argued for it except to say "they're better". I will say one more time : the less a building costs, the sooner it pays for itself. The sooner it pays for itself, the longer you have in the game to draw upon those resources. You have admitted that MP points are the chokepoint late-game; and clearly, cash is the chokepoint early game. Well, a double-discount lets you put them into play that much earlier. Portugal isn't exactly loaded with income at the start of the game, unlike Castile. The less you can make a building cost, the further you can stretch your cash flow.
Is religious good? Sure. Is innovative good? Sure. But why would you need either that soon? I'll say again, you are not converting anything that early and you don't need BROT if you aren't conquering stuff. You are not getting Liberty/Egality event pre 1700's. Can you / should you pick them either as a second admin idea set? Sure. But Economic's strengths play hard and play early, and they give you the monetary assistance to begin a steamroll. To be honest, I don't know why you would pick Innovative at all for a colonizer, and almost all of Religious will be wasted.
I also disagree on your stance about Exploration. It gives you two colonists. Better. Faster. Uncovering the entire map with your first explorers simply reveals the map to the AI sooner. You want to parcel out exploration only when you need the prestige or want to place your next colony.
Thanks - a tall order! Looks like I may have focused too much on the new world, setting me back some. From now on, all efforts to the east, and let Castille have the new world (I'll still be able to steal their trade
).Thanks all. Some suggestions are helping with this play through, others will help with the next.
One specific new question. I am wondering if my trade is growing as fast as it should. I do understand that the big trade payoffs won't come for quite a while, but the ramp up seems slow. Here is where I am now:
1507. Aztecs annexed and released. Colonization continues, though mostly one colony at a time to avoid prohibitive costs. Most (5) colonies are in SA, but one is in the Caribbean, Cape Verde of course, Fernando Po, one colony near Kongo, and the Cape. Took Benin, otherwise just have my colonies and 5 provinces from Mail. Buddies with Castille, who is finally starting to colonize. Economy is in much better shape than it was, but more because of gold than trade. Specifically, trade is a meager 7.34 gold per month. I picked trade as my second idea group & am following trade advice I've read here and elsewhere.
Is that low for this stage of the game? Or is it still too soon to expect big returns from trade?
Somewhat related, should I be burning gold to colonize more than one location at once? Two I could manage, more than that would probably not be doable at my current income level.
You should definitely be colonizing as much as you can, especially if you forgo Exploration, which means you won't have as many colonists. You don't have to worry about gold. Steal it from Mali and the Swahili who have tons just sitting there they can't spend because of their backward tech group. Start colonies and recall the dude, but remember to leave a unit in the colony to guard against uprisings. You don't want to kill the natives because that screws your income for the next 200 years. Think what you want your colonial picture to look like in 1800 and work backwards imagining each step along the way to the very first -- colonizing Cape Verde, the Caribbean and then Brazil, then Fernando Po and then St. Helena, Namibia to the Cape and then get that Trade Mission to India bonus going.
Be sure to colonize St. Helena as soon as possible. that is going to make it possible to leap-frog to the Cape. Colonize the Cape of Good Hope and no rival can get to Asia and challenge you. There is no way in my opinion to totally block the rest of Europe from colonizing the Americas. France, the Netherlands, Norway, England, and Spain all will get colonies there.
But, you can easily get all of South Western Africa and the Cape in order to block anybody getting around the Cape. Since the interior of Africa is impassable, their colonial range simply won't be great enough. By the time Spain or France finally gets to Asia it will be the 18th century, and you'll have China and India as well as Indonesia and the Pacific Islands and the West US coast and be trade steering from Mexico --> Nippon --> --> --> --> Sevilla.
Good thing vassalizing and releasing the Aztecs. You can also grab all the Caribbean islands.
Remember that Portugal historically had a trade mission in India in 1515! Try and do as well as the historical Portuguese!
Thanks - a tall order! Looks like I may have focused too much on the new world, setting me back some. From now on, all efforts to the east, and let Castille have the new world (I'll still be able to steal their trade
Hell yes! Build those trade buildings in Portugal, and lots of light ships in Sevilla and it doesn't matter how much colonial income Spain produces in the New World! When you're feeling that rivals are stealing too much in Sevilla, grab Tangiers and Cetua and build up trade buildings and manufactories there. (I sold Cetua to Algiers and then the very next day Morocco DOW'd them and grabbed it! ) Since they maintain a core on it, you can let Algiers get crushed by Morocco, then attack and vassalize them. Then attack Morocco and force them to release the Algiers cores.
That's the smart way. The stupid way is the way I did it back in September -- just attack them, seize the provinces and pay the insane Berber penalty for coring them.
But, remember that those Caribbean islands are useful for 2 reasons.
1. They're easy to get. And you can build them up to dominate the Caribbean node. That's critical for maximum trade steering bonus.
2. You can build naval bases on all those islands to lower your Naval over-forcelimit penalties. That saves you a bundle every month!
Best short advice post. Do this!
I should add that if you dominate Ivory Coast, then if rivals are giving you trouble in the Caribbean node, you can simply re-direct trade to Mauretania --> Sevilla, until they move their merchant fleet out of the Caribbean node! The AI will do this over and over again. It never learns.